Was Dee Kantner And Violet Palmers Hiring Part Of A NBA Cover Up?

[Sleeper]

It sounds as if you have been discriminated against, and for that I am truly sorry. I think that you may be too close to this situation emotionally to look at it objectively. While it seems that you do know many people within the NBA organization, it is still just rumor and heresay. In a perfect world, we would be judged strictly on skills; however, we don't and we are not. People are discriminated against everyday for reasons other than gender, race or sexual orientation. Many times, it is what we refer to as politics, which may be what happened to Kantner because of who hired her or enemies that she made. Palmer, as I understand it, is still there and still doing well.

Just as no one deserves to be fired for reasons other than nonperformance, no one deserves a shot at the NBA or to stay at that level if their perfomance is not up to level. There is no shame in being a great official in leagues other than the NBA. Some people can make it and some don't. Regardless, we should presume innocence until guilt is proven. It is a courtesy I try to extend, because I expect the same in return.

[stripes]

Maybe this is not the most politically correct thing to bring up, but I do remember Ms. Ortiz DeValle's court case against the NBA when it was originally filed. It made the papers. Remember that the NBA is very image conscience. All of the officials they hire now fit a certain body type--broad shoulders, small waist, tight butt, etc.--very athletic look (BTW, Ms. Katner and Ms. Pamer fit this "look"). Ms. Ortiz DeValle, however, did not meet this at all. I remember seeing her photo (in USBL uniform in the newspaper) and thinking that she must be kidding herself if she thought the NBA would be serious about her, based on physical appearance only.

Now, I don't know a thing about Ms. Ortiz DeValle personally or about her abilities as an official (although I do beleive that she was involved in a very serious accident and her officiating days are now over), but there is more to officiating, than just what calls you do/don't make. I can tell you for a fact that most D1 conferences are looking for officials with the same type of "look" as the NBA for the new officials that they hire. This may never be writtne or published, but believe me it is an issue that the assignors look at. So even if you are a great game official, you may never get hired based on physical appearance alone.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
I have officiated long enough to see the people who "move up" the ladder because of the color of there skin, and those who do not move because of the color of there skin. I just think it sucks when you can't move up because of the color of your skin, and you are latin american. Have you ever had to deal with this sort of thing?

So, we've finally gotten to it. I can appreciate that and I'm sure it's well founded. It sucks when you can't move up because of any type of discrimination. Neither Latin Americans nor any other group of people have a monopoly on discrimination. I'm sure you've seen it and perhaps even experienced. That's unfortunate.

But don't confuse all these other issues in the process of expressing that opinion. Say what you mean and mean what you say. And have the facts to back it up. Do that and you won't get any grief here.

BTW, Dee Kantner was no diamond in the rough. She worked numerous Final Fours and NCAA Championship games before the NBA hired her, as did Violet Palmer. Thorn and Garrettson hired them, make no mistake about it.

I agree with Brian. Let's put this thing out of it's misery.

PS- You never did explain the code of silence.

[Love2ref4Ever]

Bktballref, and Stripes you guys are allright. you helped me take another look at this matter, and I hope you guys have also taken another look. Stripes, Sandy may not have had the NBA look, but neither does everyone officiating in the league. Also Bktballref, the term "diamond in the rough" was given to me by one of the persons who gets "paid" handsomely to travel around the country for the NBA and look for new officials.And as far as a "code of silence" is concerned the NBA has very strick rules for there officials. There are some things that are forbidden and unless one of these officials shares this information with you, you mwy never know.Trust me on this one though, it does exist!

[zebraman]

Love2ref4Ever you have not given any evidence that anything other than a justified dismissal took place here. As others have said, the NBA is hugely image conscious and they would not even consider firing one of their female refs unless they felt that it was completely justified.

I am sorry if you feel as if you have been unfairly treated in your reffing career due to your skin color. That is not right. In my local ref association, we have made it a point to give minorities and women every possible advantage. If anything, we have moved them up too quickly on occasion. We try to avoid doing that as well because we don't want to set them up for failure.

If the NBA is guilty of some type of revenge or discrimination, I'm sure everyone on this discussion board would be angry. However, all you have done is "stir the pot" with no evidence to back up your claims.

Z

[stripes]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
Bktballref, and Stripes you guys are allright. you helped me take another look at this matter, and I hope you guys have also taken another look. Stripes, Sandy may not have had the NBA look, but neither does everyone officiating in the league. Also Bktballref, the term "diamond in the rough" was given to me by one of the persons who gets "paid" handsomely to travel around the country for the NBA and look for new officials.And as far as a "code of silence" is concerned the NBA has very strick rules for there officials. There are some things that are forbidden and unless one of these officials shares this information with you, you mwy never know.Trust me on this one though, it does exist!

Originally posted by Stripes
Remember that the NBA is very image conscience. All of the officials they hire now fit a certain body type--broad shoulders, small waist, tight butt, etc.--very athletic look (BTW, Ms. Katner and Ms. Pamer fit this "look"). Ms. Ortiz DeValle, however, did not meet this at all. I remember seeing her photo (in USBL uniform in the newspaper) and thinking that she must be kidding herself if she thought the NBA would be serious about her, based on physical appearance only.

The key words in my post were "All of the officials they hire now". Certainly there are officials on the staff who do not fit the criteria, but that cannot be said of the new officials.

I am not sure what you want me to take another look at. As far as I am concerned, the NBA, as a business, should be able to hire the most qualified individuals to work for them without regards to any outside source giving them a standard or criteria to uphold. Business should be able to decide for itself what is best for its long term (and short term) concern. The NBA has way too much money at stake to make a string of poor business decisons--that includes staffing. They will hire or fire in their best interest. As I have no desire to work professional basketball, it doesn't affect me in any form.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
Stripes, Sandy may not have had the NBA look, but neither does everyone officiating in the league.

Ain't that the truth! Is there an uglier official anywhere than Blane Riechelt?

Also Bktballref, the term "diamond in the rough" was given to me by one of the persons who gets "paid" handsomely to travel around the country for the NBA and look for new officials.

You are correct, there most certainly are. But those people are looking in places that the NCAA would nevcer look, like YMCA leagues, recleagues, etc. My point is that Violet and Dee were not found by an NBA scout. They grew within the NCAA system and gained from working NCAA. Everyone who knew women's college officiating in the 90's, knew who Violet and Dee were.

Later!

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jul 18th, 2002 at 03:16 PM]

[Love2ref4Ever]

Yes I have been discriminated before on and off the court and it's not a very nice feeling. Dee was recommended by another NBA official even though she was having a great collegiate career. And through recommendations there are three current NBA officials who are in the league beacause they were recommended. There is one current NBA Official who has never officiated a college basketball game, and got his break because of a recommendation.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
Dee was recommended by another NBA official even though she was having a great collegiate career.

"Even though"? How about "because"? Sometimes I just don't understand where you're coming from, Love2.

Chuck

[Love2ref4Ever]

Many NBA officials are hand picked, and even if you are a good collegiate official you still need to have someone who speak on your behalf. Like an official who is already in the league.