Was Dee Kantner And Violet Palmers Hiring Part Of A NBA Cover Up?

Love2ref4Ever · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 09:29am

Back in 1990 a multi-mllion dollar law suit was filed by a female basketball official named Ms. Sandy Ortiz Devalle, of New York City. She alleged that she was not hired by the NBA for unspecified reasons. Now if you visit the National Basketball Association Hall Of Fame in Springfield, Massachusettes, there on display is the referee shirt and whistle of Ms. Devalle. These two items are on display because this female official is the first women to officiate a mens pro league game.(USBL) Now, after this lawsuit was filed by Ms. Devalle the NBA announced that they would be bringing two female officials onto there staff.Who we know today as Violet Palmer and Dee Kantner. Now was Dee Kantners firing part of a bigger cover up or did she really not develope into the official that the NBA thought she would? Also, Ms.Kantner was the past supervisor of officials for the WNBA before she came on staff of the NBA officials. She also was allowed to hold her current position while officiating in the NBA, as supervisor of womens officials in the South Eastern Conference (SEC) is this a normal practice of the NBA? or was the hiring of Dee Kantner and Violet Palmer part of a NBA cover up?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 09:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
Back in 1990 a multi-mllion dollar law suit was filed by a female basketball official named Ms. Sandy Ortiz Devalle, of New York City. She alleged that she was not hired by the NBA for unspecified reasons. Now if you visit the National Basketball Association Hall Of Fame in Springfield, Massachusettes......

There's no such thing as the National Basketball Association Hall of Fame. The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame is in Springfield, MA.

Quote:

Now, after this lawsuit was filed by Ms. Devalle the NBA announced that they would be bringing two female officials onto there staff.Who we know today as Violet Palmer and Dee Kantner.

It was not announced that the NBA would hire to women. It was announced, when it occurred, that the NBA would hire Palmer and Kanter. It's my understanding that both had attended several NBA camps over the previous couple of years. They were both hired in 1997. Lawsuit in 1990. What's the connection?

Quote:

Now was Dee Kantners firing part of a bigger cover up or did she really not develop into the official that the NBA thought she would?

What exactly are they supposed to be covering up?

Quote:

Also, Ms.Kantner was the past supervisor of officials for the WNBA before she came on staff of the NBA officials. She also was allowed to hold her current position while officiating in the NBA, as supervisor of womens officials in the South Eastern Conference (SEC) is this a normal practice of the NBA? or was the hiring of Dee Kantner and Violet Palmer part of a NBA cover up?

Yes, this is the normal practice. Many NBA officials own businesses or have other vocations outside the NBA. Don Rutledge, the current supervisor of WNBA officials, continued to officiated NCAA basketball after he was hired, until he retired a couple of years ago.

zebraman · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 10:09am

"was the hiring of Dee Kantner and Violet Palmer part of a NBA cover up?"

Are you just rambling here or do you have any evidence of any kind. This is a joke that I don't get, right?

Z

Love2ref4Ever · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 03:16pm

They were hired in 1997 around the same time Ms. Devalle won her lawsuit. The NBA apealed the decision and Ms. Devalle has yet to receive a dime. Also, I made a mistake in the name of the Hall of Fame, It's The Naismith Hall Of Fame in Springfield, MA. Finally some close NBA sources also
feel the hiring of both women at the time were due to the lawsuit!

Dan_ref · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 03:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
They were hired in 1997 around the same time Ms. Devalle won her lawsuit. The NBA apealed the decision and Ms. Devalle has yet to receive a dime. Also, I made a mistake in the name of the Hall of Fame, It's The Naismith Hall Of Fame in Springfield, MA. Finally some close NBA sources also
feel the hiring of both women at the time were due to the lawsuit!

I don't get what you're saying here. Granted, the hirings might have been due to the lawsuit, these things happen. But where do you see a coverup? If it's true that she's ranked 59th by the coaches evaluations I don't see how she can argue she was pushed out without cause. Someone's gotta be on the bottom...it sux but it's life.

Love2ref4Ever · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 03:58pm

Maybe coverup is the wrong word. How about Smoke Screen?

johnSandlin · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 03:59pm

I really have to disagree with people that believe that the NBA is covering something up. I do not believe that the NBA is covering up anything. It has been widely spread for a longtime that Violet Palmer is more respected then Ms. Katner was as an official.
As we all know in this business of officiating, you do not make the grade, you do not keep your job for the following season. I do not think that Ms. Katner's dismissal is because of her other obligations in the officiating business.
I would believe the only reason she was let go is because she did not meet the NBA's standards.

Love2ref4Ever · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 04:20pm

I was told by one of her supervisors that"She thinks she is hot stuff, and she can't blow for ****!

Sleeper · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 04:22pm

I hate that these two women may have only been hired to settle a lawsuit, rather than on their merits. If so, it is a large hurdle they will continually have to address.

Maybe I am young and foolish, but it disapoints me that we still do not live in a society where people are measured in their job by their relative merits rather than their gender.

If she did the job and she is being rolled, she should take every avenue available for recourse. However, if she was dismissed because she failed to meet the standard (however vague, random or subjective it may be) that all of the officials were measured against, then that should be the end of the story. Either the job can be done or it can't, that should be the yardstick.

Dan_ref · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 04:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleeper
I hate that these two women may have only been hired to settle a lawsuit, rather than on their merits. If so, it is a large hurdle they will continually have to address.

Maybe I am young and foolish, but it disapoints me that we still do not live in a society where people are measured in their job by their relative merits rather than their gender.

If she did the job and she is being rolled, she should take every avenue available for recourse. However, if she was dismissed because she failed to meet the standard (however vague, random or subjective it may be) that all of the officials were measured against, then that should be the end of the story. Either the job can be done or it can't, that should be the yardstick.

I don't think anyone is saying they didn't deserve the chance (I'm not, that's for sure), it's just that the lawsuit made the nba realize it was time to move into the '90s and they found 2 good candidates to be first. Apparently 1 didn't grow as expected...

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 06:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
They were hired in 1997 around the same time Ms. Devalle won her lawsuit. The NBA apealed the decision and Ms. Devalle has yet to receive a dime. Also, I made a mistake in the name of the Hall of Fame, It's The Naismith Hall Of Fame in Springfield, MA. Finally some close NBA sources also
feel the hiring of both women at the time were due to the lawsuit!

Seven years to win a lawsuit? Wow! Dee and Violet were hired in 1997, but they both worked pre-season games in 1996. But they were not hired in 1996.

So, you're saying they shouldn't have been hired at all, that they NBA only did it to make themselves look good?

BTW, a WebFerret search for Ms. Devalle found absolutely nothing. WebFerret will even find my name on the Internet. Evidently, she didn't make much of an impression.

Love2ref4Ever · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 08:38pm

Sandy was one of the best female officials to come out of New York City. She was working mens pro leagues in New York before any women. She is currently an AD at a high school in New York City and the boys varsity coach. There are officials in the NBA today that will tell you off the record that she was no joke, when it came to officiating. I also had the pleasure to meet her and watch her work. She is truly a pioneer in women officiating mens basketball!

BktBallRef · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 16, 2002, 09:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
Sandy was one of the best female officials to come out of New York City. She was working mens pro leagues in New York before any women. She is currently an AD at a high school in New York City and the boys varsity coach. There are officials in the NBA today that will tell you off the record that she was no joke, when it came to officiating. I also had the pleasure to meet her and watch her work. She is truly a pioneer in women officiating mens basketball!

I'm sure she was. I just don't think she has as strong of an impact on the NBA as you seem to believe. JMHO. Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Love2ref4Ever · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 17, 2002, 06:47am

I believe that Dee Kantner is an excellent official and the NBA has a rating system which gives them the option of removing officials from there roster if they have a poor rating. I know that sandy's lawsuit played a significant part in the NBA signing Violet and Dee. Sandy was asked to settle out of court and she declined, she felt that she was getting screwed by the NBA again.As of today the legal battle continues and I am waitng to see how this lawsuit finally plays out. I bet the only reason why the NBA allowed her to keep her SEC job was because they had planed on leaving her with something!

Brian Watson · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 17, 2002, 08:27am

We all have mentors and offficials we look up to as we grow and develop, and we attach a great bond to that relationship.

I don't think anyone on this board would belittle or downplay any other officials impact to the game, but it needs to be placed in context. It sounds like she was a pioneer (how many women coach boys Varsity?), but I hope you don't over state her contributions to the NBA game because you know her. Did her lawsuit push the NBA along? Maybe, but that is a reach. Dee and Violet earned their shot.

Trust me, politics were probably invovled, but the NBA is a business. If they could not keep up, they would not have been there in the first place. We should pat them on the back for getting there on their skills, not based on an unrelated lawsuit filed years before they started.

The cold, hard facts may be that this Sandy, just was not good enough for the NBA. I know there are something like 8000 Basketball officals here in OH. Multiplied by 50, would be 400000 officials across the country. That does not include all of the NCAA guys who are not carded in any states. If there are only 59 NBA refs... you do the math, the number is too small. You have a better chance making it as a player. Only the elite of the elite get their NBA stipes, I think you need to separate fact from emotion in this case.