Since I've never made a mistake, I really can't help. :D

OK, seriously - I think it depends on the context of how the coach reacts. If you make a call and the coach immediately has a demonstrative reaction and it's a coach that has been relatively straight forward in the past, you probably should take pause and ask yourself if you may have erred. If so, and you have time to correct the call, you should consider doing so. If this is what happens, you probably won't have to say anything to the coach.

However, if you realize you made a mistake after it's too late to change anything and the mistake was on a rules interpretation, not a judgment call, you might want to say to the coach something like, "I know, I know, we can discuss it later". Then do so at the next break.

Also, if your realization of the mistake happens quickly, whether the coach complains or not, confer with your partner. It's much easier to explain that he or she had a better angle to see the play and because of that you're changing your initial call than to say you blew it.

Remember, judgment is always subjective and your ability to call the game properly will come with experience.

I don't like this at all. The part about missing it on purpose is baiting him. Do you really want him to answer that question?

In the OP, he admitted a mistake and the coach wouldn't let it go. If that's me, I'm going to let him vent a while as it was my mistake and then I'm telling him we are moving on. If he doesn't want to move on and refuses to let go, I'm walking away. What he does when I walk away will dictate if he needs to be stuck or not.

Mregor

But that's what you do with a flounder. :p

I've heard this before, and I am not sure what it means - "baiting him".

Is there something I can say that if he responds inappropriately to then his response is no longer owned by him, but by me? I am not sure I accept this suggestion that something *I* say somehow forces another adult to say something he should not, and therefore it is no longer his fault, but mine.

It's not about force, it's about attitude. Sarcasm rarely plays well with emotionally wrought people, and we know that going in. It's just not funny to them and usually occasions (I won't say 'causes') an inappropriate response, and that's almost always counter-productive.

Answer questions, don't discuss. Be honest but concise. Do your job.

While he certainly owns his response regardless, officials have been known to play a part in this.

Coach: "that's 9 fouls to 2"
Ref: "Are you accusing me of cheating?"
Coach: "Now that you mention it, yes."
Whack!

Oracle's advice may not be directly baiting him, but it's certainly a leading question. Or, at the very least, it could be taken that way by a coach who is caught up in the game.

I actually don't have a problem with asking that question in your scenario. We all know most coaches say this to imply we are not calling the game fairly and we need to make a couple of boarderline calls in their favor now to even things up. This question removes any subtlety from the situation, and most coaches understand if they take the conversation any further, it becomes an easy T.

There could be some people skills needed to determine how and when to use this approach. In some situations, simply ignoring the comment is best. For others, this question serves as the warning that we are done playing word games.

I can see your point, but I'm not sure it applies to the OP. I think when, where, and with whom are very important factors for this. If you're acknowledging a mistake, I don't think it's generally best to take this approach. The whole point of the conversation is to ease tensions by letting the coach know you are aware you screwed up; I've never had that go bad when I've done it. Then again, I don't recall doing that with the same coach twice. And usually, it was a matter of getting straight lined, or acknowledging to the winning coach in a blowout that I may have missed a borderline travel on the losing team. (the expected thing around here whether I agree or not)

I agree with all this - and I certainly own my own response to the coach, and have my own responsibility to be professional and not escalate the situation.

I just don't like the idea that we might "bait" someone, I guess - like it is our job to make sure they don't have a reason to say something they should not. At the end of the day, they are responsible for what they say, as I am responsible for what I say. While I am aware that I can say things that will anger them, that doesn't in any way, IMO, release them to go ahead and say something they should not.

And the idea seems, to me, to simply give them an excuse for going off - they can just claim "Hey, that official baited me!". I guess it comes back to one of my pet peeves - the idea that our job includes trying to convince adults to act like adults.

Anyway, not a huge deal, I suppose. Such is life - sometimes we have to do what even if we don't like it.

I was only repsonding to the narrow subject of whether you were "baiting" a coach in regards to the "fouls are 9 to 2" comment. But you are right, if the reason the fouls are 9 to 2 is because you and your crew have screwed up 5 or 6 of those calls, then I wouldn't recommend answering in that manner either. :D

In terms of the OP, I agree with you that occasionally admitting an obvious mistake can go a long way towards a good coach/official relationship. And, as others have already mentioned, it must be used vary sparingly.

I think the one time I said something like that when perhaps I shouldn't was very similar to the posited scenario. Some kind of lopsided foul count (I don't remember specifically) and the coach said something like that.

Coach: "Jeff, come on, we are at 7-2 now!"
Me: "Yeah coach, you really should tell your guys to stop fouling".

It actually went over pretty well, but I wish I hadn't said it. He actually laughed, but you never know with something like that. I normally would not say something like that, but it just kind of felt "right" at the particular moment.

Was I "baiting" him?

And please try not to have that conversation with under 2 minutes to go in a competitive game :)

"Only once & never a gamer" is what I've heard.

Absolutely not!
Coach made a statement that you weren't required to respond to & you addressed his "fact" with a "fact" of your own. I like that response!

"I just call them, I don't count them coach" is a good one too, if you choose to address it.

Apparently not. But, depending on the situation, you could've been. Clear enough? :D

That's where your people skills come in - you are finding out what works for you. What you say, how you say it, and when you say it are all important. What you said may have worked at that particular moment in that game, but in a different situation with the same coach may blow up. Also, some officials with their personalities might be able to get away with saying things that you or I cannot.

I had a short conversation with a coach once after a travel call against his team late in the first half:

Coach: "Jim, I know that was a travel, and I'm not arguing that, but did you know you've called 7 travels against us, and only 2 against them?"

Me: "?" (Then I glance up at the scoreboard)

Me: "Coach, I see the fouls are 6-0 in your favor; do you want us to even those up as well?"

Coach: "(...grumble...)No."

Not a word about counts the rest of the game. Now, this was a coach who is known to be a little excitable, so I was taking a chance. But, in this case, it worked - he was trying to get a subtle point across, and I got a subtle point back to him. I haven't used that line any other time, and I may never use it again. But it just worked at that particular moment.

:rolleyes:

I don't understand the infatuation with having "lines" to give to coaches. Why not communicate with a coach the same you would any other person? Smart remarks will result in bad situations and we already have emotions running wild (it is an emotional game).