To reach or not reach

Okay, so the majority of the board says leave it alone/trust your partner.

Let me ask two questions:

1. Same situation but it's a gammer vs. 1st & 3rd Qs, do you all have the same thought process?

2. How about the original sitch, but it's a foul instead of a violation?


Thoughts please.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by fiasco

The manual makes it perfectly clear what the NFHS wants us to do.

Citation please.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

"Going with your partner's decision," even though you are 100% sure they missed it isn't "deferring." It's just stupid. It's bad officiating. Negligent or lazy, depending on the situation...

Maybe you were looking to use the word cowardly.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wow. That's higher than Ivory soap, 99 44/100 %.

Billy:

Ivory Soap isn't the only thing that floats, .

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Who knows. Maybe you didn't have a good angle. Maybe you are the one who had the brain fart. Maybe you just plain missed it. But as I said before, if I see it, and it’s not outrageous for me to be looking there, and you miss it, and I’m 100% sure, I’m calling it. I don’t have time to go through all the scenarios as to why you didn’t call it. It just needs to be called.



Trust me, it won't be one-sided. I’ll happily point out that, as I’ve said before, it’s not called your ONLY area of coverage, it’s called your PRIMARY area of coverage. I’ll give you the chance to put air in your whistle, but if you don’t, and I see it for sure, I’m blowing the whistle.

As I said, in my pre-game, I’ll tell you to do the same for me, and at the next timeout, or at halftime, or after the game, I’ll ask you what you saw and say thanks for getting the play right.

This isn't my personal philosophy. This is NFHS by the book. Get It Right, No Matter What.

fiasco:

It is obvious from your posts, that you are either a very very inexperienced basketball official or a troll. I have decided that you are a very very inexperienced basketball official and not a troll. I am not going to tell you my basketball officiating background because there are many many members of this board that will tell you that like the E.F. Hutton commerials of old, when I speak, people listien (at least they humor me and act like they are listening, ).

Now listen carefully, and I do mean listen and do what I tell you. Your first responsibility is to officiate your primary coverage area (PCA), and NOT officiate your partner(s) PCA. I can assure you that with ten (10) players running around on a court that is only 50 ft by 84 ft (H.S. dimensions) in size, you will have all the more than enough to do without worrying about your partner(s) PCA.

With regard to fishing in my pond when you have enough fish in your own pond, you can bet your sweet bippy (Google Rowan and Martin's Laugh In) that the conversation that we have will be one sided and I will be doing talking and you will be doing the listen, and if you still insist in fishing in my pond I have the experience to make the rest of our game a living hell for you. And I can do it while still looking and acting professional.

So get your head and a$$ wired together (ask a Marine what that means) and get rid of the notion that you and only you have the correct call on everything that happens on the basketball court even if it happens in your partner(s) PCA.

Am I irritated with your attitude right now? Yes I am. I just wish that you could attend a basketball officials camp and I could be a staffer at that camp. Your attitude would go over with that camp staffers like a lead ballon.

I will end this lecture at this point.

MTD, Sr.

[rockyroad]

The bottom line here - imho - is that if you see something that needs to be called to keep the game from going down the toilet, then call it for God's sake. If one of your partners gets all bent because it was "in my primary", then you can discuss it later. He/she probably won't change their point of view, (as fiasco said, that's an ego problem on their part), but you know you did what was best for the game. I learned long ago that the pyramid starts with 1)Protect the integrity of the game.

And MTD, Sr., I think maybe you are overreacting just a little bit (well, actually a lot). The way I read this thread, I don't see fiasco saying that he does this "fishing in your pond" on a regular basis. If that's the case, then sure there is a problem. But with your lengthy career, you know good and well that there are times when you have seen something happen in a partner's primary, and you thought "Holy sh!t!!" and you have made that call. And if the partner was upset, you discussed it later. You made that call because it was 1)the right call, 2)at the right time, 3)for the right reason. Even though it wasn't in your primary area.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

fiasco:

It is obvious from your posts, that you are either a very very inexperienced basketball official or a troll. I have decided that you are a very very inexperienced basketball official and not a troll. I am not going to tell you my basketball officiating background because there are many many members of this board that will tell you that like the E.F. Hutton commerials of old, when I speak, people listien (at least they humor me and act like they are listening, ).

Now listen carefully, and I do mean listen and do what I tell you. Your first responsibility is to officiate your primary coverage area (PCA), and NOT officiate your partner(s) PCA. I can assure you that with ten (10) players running around on a court that is only 50 ft by 84 ft (H.S. dimensions) in size, you will have all the more than enough to do without worrying about your partner(s) PCA.

With regard to fishing in my pond when you have enough fish in your own pond, you can bet your sweet bippy (Google Rowan and Martin's Laugh In) that the conversation that we have will be one sided and I will be doing talking and you will be doing the listen, and if you still insist in fishing in my pond I have the experience to make the rest of our game a living hell for you. And I can do it while still looking and acting professional.

So get your head and a$$ wired together (ask a Marine what that means) and get rid of the notion that you and only you have the correct call on everything that happens on the basketball court even if it happens in your partner(s) PCA.

Am I irritated with your attitude right now? Yes I am. I just wish that you could attend a basketball officials camp and I could be a staffer at that camp. Your attitude would go over with that camp staffers like a lead ballon.

I will end this lecture at this point.

MTD, Sr.

You sure do make a lot of logical leaps in your post. Do you do the same on the basketball court?

I couldn't care less what you think about my attitude. For some reason that's supposed to change how I officiate?

ETA: It's pretty clear from your post ("I will make the game a living hell for you") that you're probably one of the officials I was talking about in terms of ego. If you're going to make my game a "living hell" for me for following the prescribed NFHS mechanics, well, God help the people you really DO work with. Sheesh.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by fiasco

You sure do make a lot of logical leaps in your post. Do you do the same on the basketball court?

You actually did the same thing with me in the adult league thread. It's not so nice, is it?

I don't think you actually deserved what MTD said, so I wouldn't comment on that. I think I do understand what you are saying, and I think there are plenty of shades of gray on this subject. But I still would tend to assume that my partner has a better look than me in his primary. There are times when you really think you see something across the court, but your partner tells you it didn't happen that way when you talk about it later. I'm not sure you can be 100% certain when you're 30 feet away, but sure - once in a while you will be right. I believe a lot of what Nevadaref said to be more accurate, and to be the way the very top guys in my old association expected their partners to work. These guys almost say exactly what Nevada said - respect each other's primaries. If I don't call something in my primary, there's probably a reason. Never ever call anything right in front of me. In the paint - they might get screened if they are lead, but give them first shot - minimize the double whistles. That's the way I think the game should be called.

We miss a lot of things during a game - but blatantly getting one wrong from 30 feet away can really turn things sideways for you and your partner.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You actually did the same thing with me in the adult league thread. It's not so nice, is it?

Go back and read the thread, Smit. You started the logical leaps by claiming that I "have fun" handing out technical fouls. It all went downhill from there.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I agree with your post.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Go back and read the thread, Smit. You started the logical leaps by claiming that I "have fun" handing out technical fouls. It all went downhill from there.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I agree with your post.

Thank you - I think there was some miscommunication in the other thread and I didn't really mean what you think I meant, but I'm not going to dredge up all of that again. I have some big tournaments this weekend and next. I'm going to pay attention to how my partners and I work our areas and see if I would change my mind about any of these points.

One thing I agree with you wholeheartedly about is discussing this in your pregame with your partner(s)*. It's really important, no matter which philosophy you choose, that you're both (or all three) on the same page.

* I need to learn three man so I need to stop thinking in a 2-man only frame of mind

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Smitty

One thing I agree with you wholeheartedly about is discussing this in your pregame with your partner(s)*. It's really important, no matter which philosophy you choose, that you're both (or all three) on the same page.

* I need to learn three man so I need to stop thinking in a 2-man only frame of mind

Again, agreed.

I've worked with some partners probably just as or even more experienced than our friend MTD, and I've had this pre-game discussion with them as well. Kind of strikes me as funny that MTD gets all bent out of shape when none of these partners ever did. They never made my game "a living hell" either. I actually really enjoyed them and learned a lot.

Strange teaching method, if you ask me.

[BillyMac]

Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg is a lake in the town of Webster, Massachusetts, located near the Connecticut border. It is often cited as the longest place name in the United States and one of the longest in the world.

The name comes from the language of the local Nipmuc people. The lake was an important fishing spot on the borders of several tribal territories. Algonquian speaking peoples had several different names for the lake as recorded on old maps and historical records. However, all of these were similar in part and had almost the same translation. The translation of the name of the lake is believed to be, "You fish on your side, I fish on my side, and nobody fish in the middle".

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The translation of the name of the lake is believed to be, "You fish on your side, I fish on my side, and nobody fish in the middle".

Well, that's fine for the lead and trail, but what about the center?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Well, that's fine for the lead and trail, but what about the center?

The Nipmuc tribe used two-person mechanics. That's all they had back then.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How are you 100% sure that he missed it, if you aren't considering what he can see? If you don't know whether he was blocked out or had a position which didn't provide an angle, then maybe he had a great look and just made a different decision from you. Now what sounds "me centric" in this guy's opinion is to go over there and make your call, which completely overrides his. That's what I consider "just stupid" and "bad, negligent, or lazy officiating."

At least it's not cowardly.