When Is It Incidental?

[Adam]

I know guarding can come with and without the ball, but the question is which rules apply. LGP gives the defender more protection than screening principles.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I know guarding can come with and without the ball, but the question is which rules apply. LGP gives the defender more protection than screening principles.

Is he guarding him or trying to screen him? You need to made that decision, and then apply the appropriate rules.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I accept Nevada's explanation with regard to visual field. In the first scenario, however, LGP isn't an issue because A1 does not have the ball.

Snaqs:

That was your problem when you played basketball in H.S., you never (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) guarded your opponent if he did not have the ball, .

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Snaqs:

That was your problem when you played basketball in H.S., you never (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) guarded your opponent if he did not have the ball, .

MTD, Sr.

Congratulations on finding my old high school coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Is he guarding him or trying to screen him? You need to made that decision, and then apply the appropriate rules.

Wow, the difference is very small. Sometimes guarding amounts to screening the player from getting to where he wants to go. I see your point though, but I had just assumed that with or without the ball was what made the difference between which rule to apply.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, the difference is very small. Sometimes guarding amounts to screening the player from getting to where he wants to go. I see your point though, but I had just assumed that with or without the ball was what made the difference between which rule to apply.

The only practical difference, as I see it, is that the visual field element only applies to screening. A player who is guarding has no such restrictions....only time/distance as determined by whether the player has the ball or is moving. A defender can take a guarding position outside of the visual field a stationary opponent with no requirement that they allow room for a step.

[Adam]

Okay, so how do you determine which rule comes into play? In the OP, the defender is really guarding by screening.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, so how do you determine which rule comes into play? In the OP, the defender is really guarding by screening.

They indeed are very close and largely overlap except that....

"Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent...."

The defnintion of screen has no distiction between offense/defense (although you rarely see a defender set a screen).

Being in LGP has certain requirements. If those are not met (e.g., never facing the opponent), it is certainly possible that a legal screen could still be set but the screening principles with regards to subsequent movement are more restrictive than the guarding principles....no lateral movement, for example. Also, a screen requires time/distance even if the opponent has the ball. So, a player could, short of having LGP, set a screen on the offensive player (with or without the ball) without ever facing the offensive player if they give time/distance for the offensive player to stop or change directions.

This is how you have a foul on A1 when A1 runs up the back of stationary B4 who is guarding A4. B4, even unknowingly, set a screen on A1.

[ILMalti]

So the consensus is :

B established LGP at some point in time .

1) with no player possessing the ball - it's still in flight
Team Control foul on A . Ball given to B on sideline.
2) with A just catching the pass and turning his head to face forward
Player Control foul on A. Ball given to B sideline (regardless if B in Bonus)

3) with Player B just catching the pass - while holding his position on the floor - just before A arrives

Common foul on A. Ball given to B on sideline (assuming no bonus otherwise free throws)


Is above correct?