Nightmare dillema

[MRofficial]

So I was in watching a basketball game of a niece as she was playing an AAU game. The girls are in high school and are very competitive. They were playing a game when I the game was slowly getting out of hand. Having been a basketball official in the high school level, and now doing work in the CACC conference, I have a certain appreication for younger referee's.

Be that as it may, the referee's needed to improve alot, they were well over their heads.

1. In the winding moments of the game before my niece, team A scored a wild 3pt to bring their deficeit down to 2 with 22 seconds left. Coach of Team A calls timeout, and during the excitment and confusion NEITHER referee counts the number of players substituting for Team A. There were 6 players on the court from Team A, 6 players in bright purple pressing the team that is only up by 2. In fact, the clock runs for 12 seconds while Team A is pressing full court, until a foul is called in the front court and the 6th girl on Team A somehow disappears onto the bench. This should have been the first clue for me, but everyone makes mistakes.

2. The same two referee's my neiece's game and I'm thinking well, it was very exciting and counting players could be overlooked. As the game goes, there were NO technicals called, when obviously there were at least 2 incidents of players confronting each other face to face, and 1 where a player was pushed to the ground behind the trail offical and the player on the ground kicked the player who was running over her. As the second half began, the game was even more volatile. Team A was up by a large margin and the game was getting even more tense as Team B was making a run. Than, another altercation, where two players are in each other's face. The referee finally walks over to the coachs and simply says they need to control their players, once again, no technicals and the game is still being called very loose. I would have personally given both coaches tech's for agruing throuhgout the game and demeaning the officials. Long story short, nighmare scenario occurs. One girls from Team A faces off with a girl from Team B. Referee did not get between them, they watched and than one girl striked the other girl, causing both the bleachers and benches to clear out. Police and ambulances were on site and the game was called.

MY DILLEMA
WHAT TO DO! I do not believe that either of these officials should referee again. I am also scared for the referee and organization as they might be sued. Any suggestions or comments? I think that this board has the general liability insurance, and they might need it!

[mbyron]

I don't see any dilemma. You do nothing about this incident. It's not your business unless you're called as a witness.

If you have a complaint with the officials, call their assignor and discuss it.

[Adam]

1. Get coaches who can control their players.
2. Realize it's youth AAU.
3. Remember that officials at this level are learning all about advantage disadvantage. During that process, contact gets no-called that should probably be called a foul. It happens to all of us as we progress.
4. I will never get between players about to throw a punch. Ever. Once it's at that point, all you can do is stand back, blow your whistle like hell, and take numbers.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

1. Get coaches who can control their players.
2. Realize it's youth AAU.
3. Remember that officials at this level are learning all about advantage disadvantage. During that process, contact gets no-called that should probably be called a foul. It happens to all of us as we progress.
4. I will never get between players about to throw a punch. Ever. Once it's at that point, all you can do is stand back, blow your whistle like hell, and take numbers.

Is there a certain tune we should be whistling like hell?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Is there a certain tune we should be whistling like hell?

I would leave this up to your venue. If you're in a rural school in the middle of Oklahoma, something by Toby Keith might be appropriate.

If you're in Wisconsin, maybe some polka.

Originally Posted by MRofficial

As the game goes, there were NO technicals called, when obviously there were at least 2 incidents of players confronting each other face to face, and 1 where a player was pushed to the ground behind the trail offical and the player on the ground kicked the player who was running over her.

Was the said contact during a live ball? By rule no T here...
Pushed to the ground behind the trail, tells the whole story. The position is called TRAIL for a reason, but experience is the greatest teacher.

Originally Posted by MRofficial

I would have personally given both coaches tech's for agruing throuhgout the game and demeaning the officials.

I would hope so, given your experience level

Originally Posted by MRofficial

One girls from Team A faces off with a girl from Team B. Referee did not get between them, they watched and than one girl striked the other girl, causing both the bleachers and benches to clear out. Police and ambulances were on site and the game was called.

They were officiating an "alleged" basketball contest not Boxing or UFC. We are not required to "get between" players, especially for the little change they pay us during the off-season.

Originally Posted by MRofficial

I do not believe that either of these officials should referee again.

As much as we are hurting for officials?? I know my body is sore from working 6 nights a week during the season.

That's not a fair statement as everybody (coaches, players & officials) are trying to get better during the off-season. Let the officials live & learn!!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Is there a certain tune we should be whistling like hell?

I always whistle "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida".

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I always whistle "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida".

The 3 minute radio version or the 8 minute megillah from the album???

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by justacoach

The 3 minute radio version or the 8 minute megillah from the album???

Well, I started whistling it in my head sometime in 1968 and haven't stopped yet.

[MRofficial]

WOW, looks like there is alot of whislting going on!

I admitt I had to learn too, I've missed calls and made bad ones as well, and you are right, I did learn from them. I also agree that this AAU thing has gotten out of hand. This job we call offciating is not a full time position, I totally agree that if people expect much they must be given much.

Fortunately I love the game and have passionately pursued to get better and at my level I am well compenstated, however I think that we all agree that there are those whom we have either seen or worked with as partners who you hope and wish you don't get again.

Now, it is clearly the role of the assigner to do the best of balancing the referee, but I'm sure it hasn't changed much from my days of doing summer ball, where the best is not necessarily assigned for various games due to the pay or scheduling conflicts. Having said that these two particular referee's will see a lawsuit from what I have heard, and this just brings a new dimension for us. Coaches should coach, but if they don't referee's should ref and keep the safety of the athletes at the forefront. I just believe that seeing the younger referee's, they are seldom prepared and have alot of OJT, which is fine, but I hope we all agree that there are several referee's who do not have what it takes to ref, not all who want to ref can nor should be referees.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by justacoach

The 3 minute radio version or the 8 minute megillah from the album???

8 minutes megillah? Are you kidding?

Thanks to the prompting of this thread, I'm listening to the 17 minute version now.....

......"Don't you know I'll always be true?"

Originally Posted by MRofficial

...but I hope we all agree that there are several referee's who do not have what it takes to ref, not all who want to ref can nor should be referees.

Yes sir, I'll buy that.

"If you can't see it, it wasn't meant for you to see,
If you wasn't born with it, it wasn't meant for you to be it" - DMX

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MRofficial

Now, it is clearly the role of the assigner to do the best of balancing the referee, but I'm sure it hasn't changed much from my days of doing summer ball, where the best is not necessarily assigned for various games due to the pay or scheduling conflicts. Having said that these two particular referee's will see a lawsuit from what I have heard, and this just brings a new dimension for us. Coaches should coach, but if they don't referee's should ref and keep the safety of the athletes at the forefront. I just believe that seeing the younger referee's, they are seldom prepared and have alot of OJT, which is fine, but I hope we all agree that there are several referee's who do not have what it takes to ref, not all who want to ref can nor should be referees.

My question for you: on what basis do you think those officials should be sued? Because they missed some calls? Because they didn't get in the way of the players wanting to fight?
I hope the law suit gets thrown out on its as$, frankly.

What, exactly, should they have done differently aside from having better court awareness early? Did they set aside a safety rule that led to an injury?

And what is in red is so obvious it really didn't need to be stated.

[icallfouls]

All I can say is:

FISH ON!

[Texas Aggie]

The roughest games (usually girls) I've ever worked had a mass of technical, intentional, and flagrant fouls, and they didn't do one thing to deter rough play. I've asked many a coach if they couldn't control their own players how in hell they expected me to do it.