HS vs. College

[btaylor64]

I would almost guarantee he is part of the court club because the terminology and phrases he is using are rarely if ever used at college camps and I've been to a good amount of those! Quick whistle on RSBQ vs. Patient whistles on drives??? Yeah def. Ed Rush stuff. That's great! I encourage more people to become part of the court club.

Sorry to say it and people can just say I'm bias but most of the things you are speaking of when you say "college" is pro stuff. In my personal opinion, plays to the hoop, in college, need to have more whistles. I believe there are too many plays that involve a lot of illegal contact and yet it goes uncalled for reasons I have tried to understand and yet don't. Granted I don't work big time D1, yes I work some D1 but not big time, so I'm not there and don't get it. Its just good to see that John Adams recognizes that there is indeed a problem cause he is wanting officials to up their play calling to 80 percent! That seems crazy to me. I think it should be higher but once again i don't know how bad it was but apparently it was bad to him. The greatest in the world call in the mid 90s

[Zoochy]

What are RSBQ plays? Also, what is the 'Ed Rush's Court Club?'

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

What are RSBQ plays? Also, what is the 'Ed Rush's Court Club?'

RSBQ plays stands for Rhythm, Speed, Balance, and Quickness. These are plays on the perimeter with a dribbler primarily. If a player is driving to the hoop and any of these are affected then you have a foul, if not its a play on.

[Nevadaref]

Rut made some excellent comments already, but I would like to add a thought.

It seems to me that the biggest difference between the HS and college officials is the amount of contact that triggers a whistle.
Mostly, the HS only officials let too much go, while those work college have had it drilled into them over the past few years that we need to clean up the game. That means control rough play and whistle contact that prevents freedom of movement.
Although the college players are bigger and stronger, I believe that the game is called more precisely because everything is captured on video and the officials are highly scrutinized. At the HS level, one can get away with much more because there isn't the same level of review.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Also, what is the 'Ed Rush's Court Club?'

I second this question, what is the Ed Rush Court Club?

[bradfordwilkins]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

I second this question, what is the Ed Rush Court Club?

Learn to Become A Top Level Referee

Honestly, the best investment I've made. First, you get 8 hour-long CDs with top officials at all levels including two with Ed Rush himself, 2 dvds on how to breakdown tape, a few great books, the opportunity to email Ed Rush and have him review your game tape, etc.

My favorite part, hands down, is the monthly calls usually with a guest (for April it was NBA Group Supervisor Jim Wishmier) which last between an hour and two hours... about 1/3rd of it includes review game footage and talking about playcalling/positioning principles. Every other month it includes an interview with a top official or assigner (John Adams was on for March).

It is like $400 but spread out over 4 months... honestly I make $80-100 a night doing 3 games in summer rec ball so thats one less paycheck a month and it pays for itself.

I don't work with them honestly juts someone who has been thrilled with the program (although if you mention my name I think I get like a free CD or something lol).

And yea Ch1 -- I love it and figured using your vocab that you were a member too. Are you going to the camp at Villanova?
Mention my name and I think I get a kick

[btaylor64]

Yeah Ed T. is the best out there in the officiating world. His knowledge is unbelievably. I love learning from him. its always a great day when i get to break tape down with him in the room!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

most of the things you are speaking of when you say "college" is pro stuff. In my personal opinion, plays to the hoop, in college, need to have more whistles.

I wish you guys would make up your minds. For years (I'd say 5 years), the buzzword at "pro" camps that I attended was "cheap and-1s". There was a HUGE value placed on holding your whistle on any play going to the basket and let it finish without a whistle unless the contact caused the try to miss.

I haven't been to a pro-philosophy camp in the last two years, so perhaps that emphasis has changed. If so, all I can say is, thank goodness.

John Adams recognizes that there is indeed a problem cause he is wanting officials to up their play calling to 80 percent! That seems crazy to me. I think it should be higher

I said this at the beginning of the season when the 70% figure was stated for last year's NCAA tournament: I simply don't believe it. There's no way that the BEST 90 officials in the country miss 3 out of every 10 calls/no-calls. Either the evaluation method was flawed, or the people evaluating the tape were looking to make a point.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I wish you guys would make up your minds. For years (I'd say 5 years), the buzzword at "pro" camps that I attended was "cheap and-1s". There was a HUGE value placed on holding your whistle on any play going to the basket and let it finish without a whistle unless the contact caused the try to miss.

I haven't been to a pro-philosophy camp in the last two years, so perhaps that emphasis has changed. If so, all I can say is, thank goodness.

I said this at the beginning of the season when the 70% figure was stated for last year's NCAA tournament: I simply don't believe it. There's no way that the BEST 90 officials in the country miss 3 out of every 10 calls/no-calls. Either the evaluation method was flawed, or the people evaluating the tape were looking to make a point.

It was accurate mainly because all the veteran guys who don't go to camps to work on their game ball watch and call all over the floor.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by refguy

It was accurate mainly because all the veteran guys who don't go to camps to work on their game ball watch and call all over the floor.

Simply ridiculous, if you actually believe that.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I wish you guys would make up your minds. For years (I'd say 5 years), the buzzword at "pro" camps that I attended was "cheap and-1s". There was a HUGE value placed on holding your whistle on any play going to the basket and let it finish without a whistle unless the contact caused the try to miss.

I haven't been to a pro-philosophy camp in the last two years, so perhaps that emphasis has changed. If so, all I can say is, thank goodness.

I said this at the beginning of the season when the 70% figure was stated for last year's NCAA tournament: I simply don't believe it. There's no way that the BEST 90 officials in the country miss 3 out of every 10 calls/no-calls. Either the evaluation method was flawed, or the people evaluating the tape were looking to make a point.

No I wasn't saying the figure was too low. I would say 70% is about right, maybe a little higher than that. I was stating that I think he should set the bar higher and aim for about 88-90%. But there are just so many philosophies in the college game and so many assignors out there that its hard to attain that I guess. I hope and wish John Adams the best.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

No I wasn't saying the figure was too low. I would say 70% is about right, maybe a little higher than that.

I understand what you're saying. What I'M saying is that Mr. Adams' numbers are flawed. There's no way that the actual percentage of correct calls in the entire tournament was only 70%.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I understand what you're saying. What I'M saying is that Mr. Adams' numbers are flawed. There's no way that the actual percentage of correct calls in the entire tournament was only 70%.

Well what do you believe it was at?? Don't just tell me they are flawed... give me your opinion on what you thought (know) it was at, what do you think it should be at? etc.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Well what do you believe it was at?? Don't just tell me they are flawed... give me your opinion on what you thought (know) it was at, what do you think it should be at? etc.

I don't have a firm number. But let me ask you this. Have you ever had a game where you thought afterwards that you had missed one-fourth of all your calls/no-calls in that game? One-quarter? Literally, one out of every four calls you got wrong. Have you ever felt that way? If so, maybe once or twice when you had a bad night.

Now someone is going to try to tell me that the 90 BEST OFFICIALS in the country did WORSE than that over the course of the ENTIRE tournament? No way. Simply not believable.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I don't have a firm number. But let me ask you this. Have you ever had a game where you thought afterwards that you had missed one-fourth of all your calls/no-calls in that game? One-quarter? Literally, one out of every four calls you got wrong. Have you ever felt that way? If so, maybe once or twice when you had a bad night.

Now someone is going to try to tell me that the 90 BEST OFFICIALS in the country did WORSE than that over the course of the ENTIRE tournament? No way. Simply not believable.

Point well taken!! i have felt like that in my early days and even confirmed it a couple times on film!!! But you have a valid point.

now let me ask a couple more questions:

-Do you think these are really the 90 best, outstanding, PLAYCALLERS in the country? You don't think there are a plethora of early to mid 30 yr. olds who could do better?
-Do you think these "90 best" focus more on play calling or game managing and by that i mean do you think they make more foul calls based on its a foul or not a foul vs. "I can get away with this foul" to keep everything in check? Cause if they think with the mindset of the latter then they think they get all kinds of plays right night in and night out??

I'm just posing the question and would like to hear your answer cause i think you have a realistic outlook and knowledge in this area?