3 crew-v- 2 crew

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It doesn't? Please explain to me how that is the case. The way I look at it in any given game there are X fouls, Y violations, and Z plays for which no whistle is the correct decision, but a decision must still be made. Add to that some game management situations, G, and that is the total workload for the officials no matter how many are used. Just because a higher percentage of the sum total (X + Y + Z + G) is observed and correctly called doesn't mean that the overall workload is increased. It simply means that the crew of 2 was covering less of the whole, say only 90% vs 98% that is handled by the team of 3. However, if we assume that the total remains constant, then the amount that each official is responsible for MUST decrease as the number of officials increases. Furthermore, if we are going to pay each official equally, then in fairness each one must be held responsible for an equal share of the work. Thus, I get 2/3.

That is precisely my point.

(using your numbers)

The 2-crew has to chose to not cover something somewhere just becasue they have to...They're completing 90% of the work and leaving 10% undone/incorrect....each successfully completing 45% of the job at hand.

The 3-crew is able to cover a greater part of the work...98%...8% more than the 2 crew and with a greater certainty on the original 90% that the 2-crew covered. Each official has covered 32.67% of the workload.

The official in the 3 crews had covered less of the total load, but not 1/3 less (that would have been 30%).

This angle also ignores the fact that 3-crews often double cover certain parts of the floor, more so than 2-crews, in order to get a more accurate result. So, the officials responsibilities overlap a bit more and the amount of situations that need to be covered is less cleanly divisible among the 3 officials.

Now, the amount of running does decrease too, but not by 1/3....maybe 1/6. If feels a alot less only becasue the strain of running more/faster is not linear...running a little more/faster takes a lot more energy.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

2-crew, 90%, 10%, 45%, 3-crew, 98%, 8, 32.67%, 1/3 less, 30%, 1/6.

Dear Mr. Camron Rust,

BillyMac didn't know there was going to be math on the Forum today, so he didn't prepare properly. Could you please excuse him until he properly prepares for this.

Sincerely, BillyMac's Mother

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The 2-crew has to chose to not cover something somewhere just because they have to...They're completing 90% of the work and leaving 10% undone/incorrect....each successfully completing 45% of the job at hand. The 3-crew is able to cover a greater part of the work...98%...8% more than the 2 crew and with a greater certainty on the original 90% that the 2-crew covered. Each official has covered 32.67% of the workload. The official in the 3 crews had covered less of the total load, but not 1/3 less (that would have been 30%). Now, the amount of running does decrease too, but not by 1/3....maybe 1/6.

Let's put a new twist on this. The 2-crew rides to the game on a train traveling 50 m.p.h, leaving New York at 10:00 a.m. The 3-crew rides to the same site on a train, traveling 60 m.p.h., leaving Chicago at 11:00 a.m. on the same day, and date. The distance between Chicago and New York is 795 miles. They get to the site at the same time. Where is the site?

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Let's put a new twist on this. The 2-crew rides to the game on a train traveling 50 m.p.h, leaving New York at 10:00 a.m. The 3-crew rides to the same site on a train, traveling 60 m.p.h., leaving Chicago at 11:00 a.m. on the same day, and date. The distance between Chicago and New York is 795 miles. They get to the site at the same time. Where is the site?

Inside of a gym?

[Texas Aggie]

but there are still plenty of games that are more than adequately covered using 2 person crews

Yeah. They're called girls (HS) sub-varsity games and all jr. high games. In my view, everything else needs 3 person. I worked a 2-man small school game in a relatively small gym this year and we really needed a third whistle. The boys JV games I've worked in the last few years need 3 whistles. The JV coaches in our area are seeing enough 3 man (usually their non-district schedule because they get a JV/V double header crew) that they know how to take advantage of the uncovered areas left by 2 man -- especially 2 lesser experienced (or even 1) officials.

Can 2 good officials do it? Of course, but it isn't "more than adequate." Its a little less. Our problem, however, is numbers. We can't cover all Frosh and JV assignments with 3 man.

[amusedofficial]

Round these parts, officials have absolutely no clout over whether it's a crew of two or a crew of three. It's basically tournament time only for the crew of three. This is not an area to draw a line in the sand, especially since our association made a collective *** of itself by suing over being asked to watch the kids shake hands after the game.

IN most high schools, the kids are paying user fees for sports. The schools are flat-out not going to increase the officials fees to handle an additional official over ten home games because as it stands they're putting the squeeze on the parents (so much for free public education), selling candy bars and cutting JV or frosh squads to keep a program going.

Whether or not there is another set of eyes off-ball does not matter to programs fighting to stay alive and fighting to have as wide a level of participation as possible. It simply is not that important compared to keeping kids playing.

I would be interested in what coaches say (can't believe I just said that) about what they tell the players about how to deal with it when suddenly confronted with a crew of three at tournament time.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

I would be interested in what coaches say (can't believe I just said that) about what they tell the players about how to deal with it when suddenly confronted with a crew of three at tournament time.

Why do you think a coach would tell their team anything special about the number officials they are "confronted" with?

Coach - "Ok team. Now, all year we've had two officials. Tonight there are going to be three. Watch the off ball screens. Don't be so obvious with your hold - they'll see them now. Watch your travelling. Be on your best behavior - no trash talk. Drive to the basket more now, you're more likely to get a call. They're more likely to see three-seconds with more eyes on the court, so keep moving."

Just curious? As a coach, what would you say?

[grunewar]

My Association has several of us F/JV Officials working three-man during the spring/summer so if the opportunity presents itself during the year next year, and we're good enough, maybe we can move up. Training Committee and Evaluators are there to provide "help and advice."

Well, I worked my first three-man in a while on Monday and man-oh-man do I have work to do. By the end of the second game I was certainly more comfortable, but sheesh. Areas for me to work on - moving to get a better angle, settling into a position, closing down, getting wide, relaxing, trusting my partners more, slowing down, etc.

Worst part for me - twice, TWICE - was a lack of a patient whistle. I'm L, drive from C, BAM! Both times, double-whistle. Both times I didn't wait for my partner to make the call. Both times I signaled too early and stole it. First one was a BLARGE! Ugly! While my call was right, it wasn't my call. My partner(s) were very understanding and helpful.

Good training, but I have work to do and will listen and work hard to improve. Like anything else, the transition will take practice.....my $.02