Who to call the foul on?

[JPaco54]

In a HS Church/Rec playoff game. A1 grabbed an offensive rebound, came down and as he went back up for the shot, was fouled by two players, B1 and B2, at the same time. B1 on the right side hit shooting arm, and B2 on the left side, reaching over and hitting shooting arm. I whistled for the foul, then chose B1 for the foul since he was closer to the shooting arm. I was confused about this at first but knew I had to call it on someone. Is this just a judgement call at this point or is there any protocol to follow. Thanks!

[jeffpea]

if you know how many fouls each guy has...I give it to the one who has fewer fouls. or, i charge it to the player who has the smaller impact on the game (iow - give the better player a pass and charge it to the other guy)....

[co2ice]

Come on have some fun how many multiple fouls do you get to call. Nail them both with a foul and shoot 2 free throws!!!!!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

if you know how many fouls each guy has...I give it to the one who has fewer fouls. or, i charge it to the player who has the smaller impact on the game (iow - give the better player a pass and charge it to the other guy)....

Good job...that should start a several page discussion...

Actually, in theory you could call a multiple foul - one foul on each player. In practice, however, it is almost always one foul on the player that you feel fouled "first", and the second is ignored (unless it was flagrant).

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

if you know how many fouls each guy has...I give it to the one who has fewer fouls. or, i charge it to the player who has the smaller impact on the game (iow - give the better player a pass and charge it to the other guy)....

You'd make a great NBA official.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

if you know how many fouls each guy has...I give it to the one who has fewer fouls. or, i charge it to the player who has the smaller impact on the game (iow - give the better player a pass and charge it to the other guy)....

I agree with you whole heartedly Jeff. That is the perfect situation to give the foul to the player with fewer fouls or the one that can have the least amount of impact on the game. By both of them fouling at virtually the same time it gives you leeway to do something like this.

Now that's not to say, the fouls happen, but with a decent amount of time in between. You can't pick and choose, you have to take the obvious first foul.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

if you know how many fouls each guy has...I give it to the one who has fewer fouls. or, i charge it to the player who has the smaller impact on the game (iow - give the better player a pass and charge it to the other guy)....

Originally Posted by Old_School

You'd make a great NBA official.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Good job...that should start a several page discussion...

This has been said/discussed before.

I even recall one poster with another variation - if you know one guy is a starter and the other one is a sub just off the bench, give it to the sub!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

if you know how many fouls each guy has...I give it to the one who has fewer fouls. or, i charge it to the player who has the smaller impact on the game (iow - give the better player a pass and charge it to the other guy)....

First - this is as wrong as it gets. Second - why would you know how many fouls each player has? Do you work games where the fouls are posted on the scoreboard? Other than that, there should be no knowledge on your part of these numbers. Your comment is one of the reasons why. Call the game as it happens. It's up to the player's actions to determine the outcome, not your misguided sense of what has impact and what doesn't. Remember - be in control of the game without controlling the game.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I agree with you whole heartedly Jeff. That is the perfect situation to give the foul to the player with fewer fouls or the one that can have the least amount of impact on the game. By both of them fouling at virtually the same time it gives you leeway to do something like this.

Now that's not to say, the fouls happen, but with a decent amount of time in between. You can't pick and choose, you have to take the obvious first foul.

(Ok, against my better judgement, here goes...)

What do you do in these instances, where B1 and B2 foul A1 about the same time?

- B1 has 4 fouls, and has been kinda mouthy all game, without really crossing the line, and B2 is a sub that rarely comes in the game. Would you still give the foul to the player with the least? Or would it be better to get rid of "the problem" in this case?

- What if "mouthy" B1 and "quiet" B2 both have the same number of fouls? Does it still matter? Or does your philosophy only apply to the number of fouls each player has?

- What if you're not sure who has the most fouls? Do you check at the table before deciding who to report the foul on?

- How does this philosophy jive with your signature line, where an official could ignore an action by one player to simply give the foul to a "more deserving" (or is it "less deserving"?) other player?

Why not simply observe the play and call the foul on the player that fouled first?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

First - this is as wrong as it gets. Second - why would you know how many fouls each player has? Do you work games where the fouls are posted on the scoreboard? Other than that, there should be no knowledge on your part of these numbers. Your comment is one of the reasons why. Call the game as it happens. It's up to the player's actions to determine the outcome, not your misguided sense of what has impact and what doesn't. Remember - be in control of the game without controlling the game.

So who would YOU call the foul on Mark?? And what rationale would you use for your decision??

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So who would YOU call the foul on Mark?? And what rationale would you use for your decision??

I would call the foul on whoever committed it first. If, by some miracle, they were both committed at exactly the same split second, then I would call a multiple foul.

Absent that, I'd call it on the kid with the worse looking haircut.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Absent that, I'd call it on the kid with the worse looking haircut.

So if Ed Hightower were playing in your game....

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

First - this is as wrong as it gets. Second - why would you know how many fouls each player has? Do you work games where the fouls are posted on the scoreboard? Other than that, there should be no knowledge on your part of these numbers. Your comment is one of the reasons why. Call the game as it happens. It's up to the player's actions to determine the outcome, not your misguided sense of what has impact and what doesn't. Remember - be in control of the game without controlling the game.

the games in which I work (D2, D3, NAIA, some HS) require more game management skills than other facets of officiating.....the way in which i handle the situation in the OP, is the way that I have managed that scenario in games (and you know what? NOBODY COMPLAINED when it happened - probably because nobody noticed)

those that I admire/trust who work at higher levels repeatedly say - "anyone can call traveling, see if someone stepped out of bounds, or call a block/charge play....it's the officials who can manage the game (players, coaches, score table, partners, etc) that rise to the highest level of officiating" (and since that's my goal - I've tried to emulate those successful behaviors)

i always want to know who the best players are, which players have 4 fouls, what style of play each team uses, how the coaches interact (or don't) w/ officials, what type/level of contact has been previously called a foul in the game, which players are the trouble makers, etc...

i do call the game as it happens - in a manner that is in accordance w/ the rules and in a manner that is fair for both teams....that's what an official does, to administer and adjudicate the rules in a fair manner.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

So if Ed Hightower were playing in your game....

Calling it on Ed would be easy. However, if these were the five guys on the court for a team, I wouldn't know who to choose!

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Calling it on Ed would be easy. However, if these were the five guys on the court for a team, I wouldn't know who to choose!

I'd charge the guy in the lower left corner w/ the foul- you CAN'T go bad facial hair w/ that haircut!....of course he's the keyboard player and backup singer - so he really is the LEAST important person on the team (I guess my philosopy works in ALL situations......

btw is it just me, or does it look like he came to this photo shoot straight from the hospital after working the midnight shift as a male nurse? what's with the "colorful" hospital scrub top he's wearin'?