Is a muff the same as a fumble in BB?

[ILMalti]

In other words is it always legal to recover the ball after a muff or a fumble?
Can one use the words interchangebly (did I spell that right ?) when talking about situations?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ILMalti

In other words is it always legal to recover the ball after a muff or a fumble?
Can one use the words interchangebly (did I spell that right ?) when talking about situations?

The difference is not as important as it is in football but I would not interchange them.

Yes, you can legally recover the ball if you lose control.

[Scrapper1]

"Muff" is not defined in basketball. So it's unclear if a muff occurs when there's player control, team control, no control. Using the word "muff" in a basketball conversation doesn't really tell you anything.

On the other hand, "fumble" is clearly defined as a loss of player control when the ball drops or slips from a player's grasp. So that tells us that there WAS player control, there is no longer player control, but there is still team control.

A muff, at least in a very loose "layman's" sense, simply means that a player was unable to secure control of the ball.

I would not use the two terms interchangeably. In fact, I would not use the term "muff" at all.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

"Muff" is not defined in basketball. So it's unclear if a muff occurs when there's player control, team control, no control. Using the word "muff" in a basketball conversation doesn't really tell you anything.

On the other hand, "fumble" is clearly defined as a loss of player control when the ball drops or slips from a player's grasp. So that tells us that there WAS player control, there is no longer player control, but there is still team control.

A muff, at least in a very loose "layman's" sense, simply means that a player was unable to secure control of the ball.

I would not use the two terms interchangeably. In fact, I would not use the term "muff" at all.

Scrapper, you have provided the proper information for a fumble, however, the NFHS uses the term "muff" to indicate that the player touched the ball, but did not establish player control.

4.44 SITUATION A: A1 attempts to catch the ball while running rapidly. A1
muffs the ball, but succeeds in securing it before it strikes the floor. A1 then
begins a dribble, taking several steps between the time the ball was first touched
until it was caught. RULING: There has been no violation provided A1, after catching
the ball, released the ball to start the dribble before the pivot foot was lifted
from the floor. (4-15)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ILMalti

In other words is it always legal to recover the ball after a muff or a fumble?
Can one use the words interchangebly (did I spell that right ?) when talking about situations?

The terms aren't the same and cannot be used interchangeably.

Fumble tells you that the player was holding the ball and then lost it.

Muff indicates that the ball was touched in an attempt to grab it, but that the player was unable to secure control upon touching the ball.

This has consequences for rule interpretations such as the one about traveling which I posted above.

Also, when taking a written exam from the NFHS these terms will be used as defined above and that makes a difference in how one should answer the question.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Scrapper, you have provided the proper information for a fumble, however, the NFHS uses the term "muff" to indicate that the player touched the ball, but did not establish player control.

4.44 SITUATION A: A1 attempts to catch the ball while running rapidly. A1
muffs the ball

Interesting, but I still wouldn't use the term. As I said, there is a layman's "common sense" meaning; and I guess that's good enough for the case book. I still don't like it, though.

[Mark Padgett]

Certainly not interchangeable.

Fumble:




Muff:

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Muff:

What a relief. I wasn't sure which sense you were going to go with.

[ILMalti]

Pictures paint a 1000 words.

Lol thanks

Kudos to Padgett for the very educational pictures. Now I hope I'm not laughing in the wrong dream tonight!