throw-in bounce pass hits line

[rsl]

On a throw in, the thrower makes a bounce pass along
the out of bounds line, and the ball bounces on the line,
then into the court, where it is caught by a teammate of the thrower.

Has the thrower commited a violation? I say yes because of the red text below, but I have never seen it called. I passed on it in a game last night and a player questioned me.


8-6-2
The throw-in starts when the ball is at the disposal of a player of
the team entitled to the throw-in. The thrower shall release the ball on a pass
directly into the court, except as in 7-5-7, within five seconds after the throw-in starts. The throw-in pass shall touch another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched. The throw-in pass shall not touch a teammate while it is on the out-of-bounds side of the throw-in boundary
plane.

[M&M Guy]

rsl - the part in red is your answer, if you remember "the court" is considered inbounds, and the boundary lines are considered OOB.

[ILMalti]

But there is no rule about a throwin player bouncing the ball out of bounds. So I would think that the bounce pass (which bounced on the line hence is out of bounds) is not a violation. Comments please. One could also discuss the situation when the ball accidently rolls inbound after the throw in has teh ball?

[Adam]

You're right, if it's an endline throwin and A1 bounce passes to A2 standing OOB, it's perfectly legal and there's a case play to back this up.

If, however, the bounce pass bounces OOB and is touched in bounds by a player or the floor, it is a throwin violation.

If the thrower is holding the ball and fumbles it in bounds (whether it rolls or bounces doens't really matter) it will only matter whether the ball hit the floor OOB prior to going in bounds. If it did, it's a violation. If it did not, it's legal.

I have called the bounce pass that hits OOB first; you just don't see it that much. I see it get close every once in a while, but hardly ever see it actually bounce OOB.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ILMalti

But there is no rule about a throwin player bouncing the ball out of bounds. So I would think that the bounce pass (which bounced on the line hence is out of bounds) is not a violation. Comments please. One could also discuss the situation when the ball accidently rolls inbound after the throw in has teh ball?

A deliberate act of a pass will be judged by me; and if it's a pass, and it then bounces OB, it is a violation for not being passed directly onto the court. If the throw-in is after a made or awarded basket, don't blow the whistle until it is touched inbounds. Before that, it could be a legal OB pass.

(An accidental roll to inbounds will have me reset everything.)

Remember that the game is played INbounds. The out-of-bounds cases are special cases.

Just make the call - that's why you get paid.

[Adam]

I'm only resetting if he muffs the ball prior to gaining control. If he's holding it then it bounces; I'm not resetting.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm only resetting if he muffs the ball prior to gaining control. If he's holding it then it bounces; I'm not resetting.

So then you call a violation?

Devils advocate: what if it's deemed to not be a pass? A fumble is not a pass.

[bradfordwilkins]

7-5-7

A throw-in anywhere along the end line after a goal or an awarded goal for basket interference or goaltending by a defensive player, as in 9-12 Penalty 1, the team not credited with the score shall make a throw-in from the end of the court where the goal was made and from any point outside the end line.

a. Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or he/she may pass the ball along the end line to a teammate(s) outside the boundary.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So then you call a violation?

Devils advocate: what if it's deemed to not be a pass? A fumble is not a pass.

I will if it bounces inbounds or (in the case of a spot throwin) outside his three foot throwin spot.

A player fumbling the ball inbounds would be treated just like a player stepping over the line with the ball during a throwin. It's not what he did, it's what he failed to do.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I will if it bounces inbounds or (in the case of a spot throwin) outside his three foot throwin spot.

As long as the thrower has one foot over the spot, the ball bouncing outside the spot would not be a violation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

As long as the thrower has one foot over the spot, the ball bouncing outside the spot would not be a violation.

We had a discussion about this, and I should have worded it differently. If it bounces away from where he can reach while maintaining his spot, it's a violation. You could argue that they still have the opportunity to request a timeout if the 5 second count has not expired, but given the NFHS rule/case/interp on a free thrower fumbling the ball away, I have to think they want us to call this violation immediately.

[zeedonk]

I actually had this happen to me in a B JV game I did this year while I was being evaluated by an observer in the stands. He was in the 5th row center court, and I administered the throw in right in front of him. A1 attempts to inbounds to A2, but the ball hits the sideline before A2 (or anyone else) touches it.

Tweet- "throw in violation- Red ball". That was it. Despite it being the rare occurrance, it seemed pretty logical to me- "hmm, ball hit the line, line is OOB- violation"

BTW, the observer gave me a great evaluation, complete with a specific reference to that play and two thumbs up to me for knowing the rule. I was just happy that I didn't kick the call.

End of personal horn-tooting...

Z

[rsl]

Thanks to all.

I clearly kicked this call- But I won't next time!

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

We had a discussion about this, and I should have worded it differently. If it bounces away from where he can reach while maintaining his spot, it's a violation. You could argue that they still have the opportunity to request a timeout if the 5 second count has not expired, but given the NFHS rule/case/interp on a free thrower fumbling the ball away, I have to think they want us to call this violation immediately.

Don't know if this was brought up in the other thread, but there's an NCAA case play that says to reset - which was opposite of what I advocated for before I found it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Don't know if this was brought up in the other thread, but there's an NCAA case play that says to reset - which was opposite of what I advocated for before I found it.

I thought that was for a "muff," in which the player never gains control of the ball when the official bounces it to him.