could I have fixed this?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

but if it's a fifth grade game, especially if it has any deviation from normal rules, (limits on pressing, etc.) especially if any of the officials are less than certified, especially if this happens with the game on the line, put the time back on the clock, and give it to the right team.

What does the book have to do with any of this?

So you are saying that it is okay do it wrong because it's just a kiddie game?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So you are saying that it is okay do it wrong because it's just a kiddie game?

Do you call traveling the same in a small kids game as you do in a varsity game?

Certain things just don't work in games at this level. A huge percentage of the time, despite any number of warnings, kids this age will step over the line on a throw-in, so we have adjusted the rule and don't call the violation unless they step over with both feet. Kids this age, after a made basket, if nobody stays to help, will frown, then just dribble the ball in themselves. Instead of calling this violation, we blow the whistle and make them do it over correctly. In the play at hand, I doubt seriously any deception was involved, it was just a matter of the first kid to step up, stepped out of bounds and was rewarded with the ball. If you are an inexperienced official, you may not be at all familiar with a rule like this. If you are a veteran, experienced official, the kids will tend to drag you down to their level, which is not altogether a bad thing. There probably weren't three people in the building that knew what the rulebook says in this case. Sometimes you do what is best for the level you are working. This is what I would have done.

[Nevadaref]

Should a college official take that same attitude when working a HS game?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Should a college official take that same attitude when working a HS game?

If they were working a high school game where the majority of the players were on the court for the first time, they might be forced to adopt a similar attitude.

I should say that I do, perhaps, have more latitude in making what you might consider an outrageous call such as this, because, in our league, I am the rules committee. That's right. Just me. Nobody else. After conferring a bit with the league director, I type up the rules, which we have adjusted slightly a few times over the years. They read, in part: "Games will be played by high school rules with the following exceptions," which are listed afterward, and include differences in timing, full court defense, substitutions, etc. There is also a line which states: "Some adjustments will be made on the calling..........to provide a maximum learning experience for all."

I have no problem believing that righting this wrong by the official helped to maximize the experience.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is also a line which states: "Some adjustments will be made on the calling..........to provide a maximum learning experience for all."

I have no problem believing that righting this wrong by the official helped to maximize the experience.

I guess our opinions are just going to differ because I happen to believe that incorrectly fixing this misses that opportunity for a learning experience.

Teaching the kids wrongly doesn't teach them anything.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I guess our opinions are just going to differ because I happen to believe that incorrectly fixing this misses that opportunity for a learning experience.

Teaching the kids wrongly doesn't teach them anything.

Did you teach your kids about Santa?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

Did you teach your kids about Santa?

You're kidding right?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I guess our opinions are just going to differ because I happen to believe that incorrectly fixing this misses that opportunity for a learning experience.

Teaching the kids wrongly doesn't teach them anything.

The point in this case was actually not the learning, but that it is written that adjustments will be made. A fifth grade game and a varsity game are not the same game. Prime example: In our league, we shoot no free throws at all during the regular season, and only in the last 30 seconds of a close (6 points or less) game during the tournament. The reason? There are very few players that can make a free throw. They do not add to the quality of the game, especially not relative to the amount of time they take. In Nevada, if you want to line 'em up and shoot and call all those lane violations, be my guest.

[SmokeEater]

At this level of play you need to decide, Do you want to be right or get it right?

[bradfordwilkins]

Technically if the "official" (for this league) rules allow the referee discresion to adjust a rule for learning purposes, then I think he has (in a weird end around) followed the rules as written.

When you talk about teaching them the wrong thing -- I think teaching them to use deception to get an advantage would be worse than teaching them that as much as possible the "right" call will be made.

These are 5th graders for heaven's sakes -- they are LEARNING the game, there is nothing on the line except their pride, happiness, etc. They are playing organized basketball to have FUN (hopefully). No scholarships are going to won or lost based on the results of the game... which is where it'd differentiate from a high school or college game, imo.