Sliding on kness

[Adam]

No travel, the veteran has no rules to support his distinction.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No travel, the veteran has no rules to support his distinction.

Well, I can kinda see the point the vet makes.

4-44-5(B) is the case play - in it the player dives for a loose ball, then slides after gaining control. In RookieDude's play, the ball was never loose - the player was dribbling, fell to the knees while dribbling, then slid on the knees after picking up the dribble. How would that be different than a player who dribbles while running, picks up the dribble, then slides on his feet after picking up the dribble?

[bbcoach7]

player had possession and touched the floor with other than hand or foot sounds text book to me and I'm just a bottom feeder coach. There was no bobble, no tip or defletion --> just dribbling & falls to knees while controling the ball in hands. This gets called a travel around here every time, I'm very sure.

If dribbling and the ball keeps bouncing with no touch as the player falls to knees and slides, THEN gains control it would be legal, correct? As long as no attempt to get up or move to seated, or roll over?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

player had possession and touched the floor with other than hand or foot sounds text book to me and I'm just a bottom feeder coach. There was no bobble, no tip or defletion --> just dribbling & falls to knees while controling the ball in hands. This gets called a travel around here every time, I'm very sure.

If dribbling and the ball keeps bouncing with no touch as the player falls to knees and slides, THEN gains control it would be legal, correct? As long as no attempt to get up or move to seated, or roll over?

No, it's not traveling.

The player was dribbling and fell to the floor. So touching the floor with other than the hand or foot is not an issue.

He legally has to ball on his knees. His momentum caused him to slide. It's no different than diving, gaining control, and continuing to slide.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

How would that be different than a player who dribbles while running, picks up the dribble, then slides on his feet after picking up the dribble?

That's what I was wondering.

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Well, I can kinda see the point the vet makes.

4-44-5(B) is the case play - in it the player dives for a loose ball, then slides after gaining control. In RookieDude's play, the ball was never loose - the player was dribbling, fell to the knees while dribbling, then slid on the knees after picking up the dribble. How would that be different than a player who dribbles while running, picks up the dribble, then slides on his feet after picking up the dribble?

The player who picked up the dribble and then slid on his feet moved their pivot foot. A player sliding on his knees on the floor has no pivot foot.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Old_School

The player who picked up the dribble and then slid on his feet moved their pivot foot. A player sliding on his knees on the floor has no pivot foot.

But you're not allowed to have ANY pivot knee...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

But you're not allowed to have ANY pivot knee...

You can have a pivot cheek.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

You can have a pivot cheek.

"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39)

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

But you're not allowed to have ANY pivot knee...

Exactly. That's why it's not traveling to slide on your knees.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old_School

Exactly. That's why it's not traveling to slide on your knees.

Or stomach, or backside, or whatever, I know. I understand traveling is moving the foot or feet beyond the prescribed limits, and there is no pivot foot established in this case. But the case play deals specifically with gathering a loose ball and momentum causing the slide, or, iow, rewarding a good hustle play by not calling a violation on the slide. However, any attempt to roll over after the slide would be a travel, even though there is still no pivot foot established. Why is that? (I know, because the rule says so, but why does it say so?) I would say it is because the committee considers the rollover to be a "controlled movement", meant to circumvent the rule as written, vs. simple momentum from the slide. There are other examples of this distinction in the rules, for example setting the ball down, standing up, then picking the ball up - perfectly legal under the traveling rules, so they had to put in this exception. Momentum vs. "controlled" is also mentioned in going OOB - saving a ball from going OOB, or going OOB after attempting a layup are ok, but purposely going OOB to avoid a screen, for example, are not.

As I pictured the OP, the player had control the whole time, first by dribble, then by holding, while attempting a Fred Astaire/Curly Neal-type slide on the knees. To me, that seems to circumvent the traveling rules. However, if the ball was loose at any time, and fall to the knees was part of the attempt to recover, then I got nuthin'.

[love2refbball]

It's the sequence of events that makes it not a travel.
1. dribbling
2. falls to knees while still dribbling
3. slides on knees
4. picks up dribble WHILE sliding on knees

BUT, if he:
1. dribbling
2. falls to knees while still dribbling
3. picks up dribble THEN slides on knees
he is traveling.