"Wisconsin Refs" - 3 Person Question

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Deb Hauser (WIAA) doesn't think we have enough quality 3-Person officials to work 3-person for the entire tournament...and she is right. She answered this question at a camp I was working at last summer.

And you never will as long as schools are only using 2-person mechanics. Even your best 2-person officials need 3-person experience to become "good enough."

One season of 3-person would fix your problem.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And you never will as long as schools are only using 2-person mechanics. Even your best 2-person officials need 3-person experience to become "good enough."

One season of 3-person would fix your problem.

I would disagree...just because you work 15-20 games with 3 officials on the court doesn't mean you have a enough quality officials to put 3 officials on a tournament game. How many games did you work 3-person before you thought you really had a good grasp on who the system works?

[chartrusepengui]

are you saying we don't have enough "quality" officials to do 3 man for entire tournament series - even splitting half and half on 2 nights, or we don't have enough officials with 3 person training and experience? Big difference in this

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

are you saying we don't have enough "quality" officials to do 3 man for entire tournament series - even splitting half and half on 2 nights, or we don't have enough officials with 3 person training and experience? Big difference in this

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

Even with a good plan, it won't be seamless. But we don't have a plan, let alone a good one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

Quality enough for a first round playoff game? I think so. Quality enough for the finals? You don't need as many.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Quality enough for a first round playoff game? I think so. Quality enough for the finals? You don't need as many.

MIchigan eased in with 3-whistle @ 1/4-finals and up.
Then went to Regionals and up
And finally went to the entire tourney.
I forget, but the process may have taken 5-7 years.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

Gotcha - I agree. I don't agree with Snagwells though - what makes a first round game any less important than a final? One and done baby! 1st round games deserve the same quality as finals IMHO

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Gotcha - I agree. I don't agree with Snagwells though - what makes a first round game any less important than a final? One and done baby! 1st round games deserve the same quality as finals IMHO

Some of the boys first round match-up are really tough games.

[WIRef]

I think the question above was whether we have enough quality officials to do 3-person, or whether we have enough quality 3-person officials to do the tournament games? IMO, right now there are not enough quality 3-person officials to handle the first round sub-regional games all on one night. Splitting them over two nights would help. But weather in Wisconsin is very unpredictable, and it would be a scheduling nightmare trying to get games in before the next round comes. Not sure of the best way to handle the 3-person dilemma, but schools are really fighting it right now, due to budget problems. Also, I think we as officials in general can take some blame, because, in some instances, we have not been able to show that 3-person crews call that much better of a game than 2-person crews. That comes from the inexperience of some, along with having to work with officials you have not worked with before. I know the theory is that in 3-person you should be able to work with any other official. But the inexperience really shows for those that do mostly 3-person games. Just my thoughts.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Gotcha - I agree. I don't agree with Snagwells though - what makes a first round game any less important than a final? One and done baby! 1st round games deserve the same quality as finals IMHO

I'll agree first round deserves higher quality than regular season; but I disagree that you need the same quality official on a first round playoff game as you get in the finals. Even with 2-person, you're not getting that. You just can't.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Gotcha - I agree. I don't agree with Snagwells though - what makes a first round game any less important than a final? One and done baby! 1st round games deserve the same quality as finals IMHO

In a state where everyone gets in, you can target certain games. A few years ago I had 18-2 against 2-18 and the game was a 40-point spread at the half. This was 1 against 16 in a sectional, I think.

Of course, I believe I worked a boys game about 4 years ago where the team got its first win (0-20 up till then) in the first round. And I've had two first round boys games that came right down to the last shot. I'll never forget the one where I had my hand up as the trail on a 3 at the buzzer (2 point game) and watched as the ball rattled out. I blew my whistle and everyone (including us) stood for a second or two to absorb what had just happened.

I love it when I get a first round game where the teams are close seeds playing one another. Last year, I had a boys 8/9 matchup that was outstanding and the visiting team pulled it out at the wire.