"Wisconsin Refs" - 3 Person Question

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I believe that the 3 officials for 2 pay (the officials choice) is good to a point to expose the teams and AD to the benefits of having three officials. At the same time we can promote and get in the AD's ear about their conference going to 3 person.

No doubt. But I've said all along there should've been a plan for this, such as:

I'll take $40 a game for 2-3 seasons. It's my commitment to 3-person officiating. But there needs to be a commitment on the part of conferences and schools that the rates will go back to the $55 - $65 we're getting now within 2-3 seasons. Otherwise, what's the incentive to hiring 3 for the conferences? I know some are hiring 3 now and paying for 2 formally. Why would we want that to continue indefinitely into the future -- JV games pay more than $37.

It's not about the money first, but consideration and commitment is a two-way street.

Second round girls tonight with freezing rain due to start about 3PM. I gots a boys regular season game tomorrow and already have been told the playoff game will move to tomorrow if canceled today. Which to work, which to work....

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Second round girls tonight with freezing rain due to start about 3PM. I gots a boys regular season game tomorrow and already have been told the playoff game will move to tomorrow if canceled today. Which to work, which to work....

Me too, when I was coaching had a bad storm and tried to reschedule. Caught real flak from WIAA so it will be interesting to see what will happen tonight. I have a 60 mile drive one way and am in the area forcasted to be hit the heaviest. Tomorrow, I have VB game only 20 minutes from the house. Hmmmmmmmm? Guess I'll have to stay with tournament game and let guys not tournament eligible to get V experience at the other one.

[BearBoy]

Why in Wisconsin do they do first two rounds of post-season tournament in 2-person? Why not do all state tourney playoffs in 3-person?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BearBoy

Why in Wisconsin do they do first two rounds of post-season tournament in 2-person? Why not do all state tourney playoffs in 3-person?

If some coaches and way too many officials had their way we'd all go back to working 2-person full time.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BearBoy

Why in Wisconsin do they do first two rounds of post-season tournament in 2-person? Why not do all state tourney playoffs in 3-person?

Deb Hauser (WIAA) doesn't think we have enough quality 3-Person officials to work 3-person for the entire tournament...and she is right. She answered this question at a camp I was working at last summer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Deb Hauser (WIAA) doesn't think we have enough quality 3-Person officials to work 3-person for the entire tournament...and she is right. She answered this question at a camp I was working at last summer.

And you never will as long as schools are only using 2-person mechanics. Even your best 2-person officials need 3-person experience to become "good enough."

One season of 3-person would fix your problem.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Deb Hauser (WIAA) doesn't think we have enough quality 3-Person officials to work 3-person for the entire tournament...and she is right. She answered this question at a camp I was working at last summer.

She is right, but the state (IMO) has failed to push hard enough in the direction of 3-person officiating.

(1) Mandate 3-person for all varsity games

(Amazing how not a single varsity football game is worked 4-person, even when the schools involved pass 10 times between them the ENTIRE game.)

(2) Suggest a pay structure for 2-3 years where the officials have to take a 3-for-2 deal for the first 2 or so years and this gives the schools time to figure out how to pay the extra $1300 or so that it would take to cover 22 varsity games (11 boys, 11 girls).

(3) The conferences should simply say: "For the next 2 seasons, we're hiring 3 officials and we are paying $40 per. Either you work it or you don't. Please let us know where you've received state-approved 3-person training." If the officials aren't willing to do this, hire people who are. Deal with the pain of transition and acknowledge that it won't be seamless.

(4) Restructure the playoffs so that half the first round is played on Tuesday and half on Wednesday. Do the same with the second round. Problem eliminated. You do not need to have every girls' team in the state playing on Tuesday February 26.

It's easy to say "there aren't enough good officials." The hard thing is to think outside the box and fix the problem with the goal being 3-person in every varsity game in the state within 3 years.

(It'll never happen.)

And the state should support those who WANT to work 3-person. Last season I worked a boys varsity game with a guy who spent the entire time there complaining about 3-person. He rotated ONCE the entire game (which was one more time than the other guy, while I kept annoying them by rotating whenever the play dictated, sometimes multiple times in a trip). Kept saying how he can't wait until they go back to 2-man. Then I turn on the state tourney and he's working. Gotta love it.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And you never will as long as schools are only using 2-person mechanics. Even your best 2-person officials need 3-person experience to become "good enough."

One season of 3-person would fix your problem.

I would disagree...just because you work 15-20 games with 3 officials on the court doesn't mean you have a enough quality officials to put 3 officials on a tournament game. How many games did you work 3-person before you thought you really had a good grasp on who the system works?

[chartrusepengui]

are you saying we don't have enough "quality" officials to do 3 man for entire tournament series - even splitting half and half on 2 nights, or we don't have enough officials with 3 person training and experience? Big difference in this

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

are you saying we don't have enough "quality" officials to do 3 man for entire tournament series - even splitting half and half on 2 nights, or we don't have enough officials with 3 person training and experience? Big difference in this

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

Even with a good plan, it won't be seamless. But we don't have a plan, let alone a good one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

Quality enough for a first round playoff game? I think so. Quality enough for the finals? You don't need as many.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Quality enough for a first round playoff game? I think so. Quality enough for the finals? You don't need as many.

MIchigan eased in with 3-whistle @ 1/4-finals and up.
Then went to Regionals and up
And finally went to the entire tourney.
I forget, but the process may have taken 5-7 years.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I think if we split it into 2 days we might have enough...what I was commenting on was if we went 3 person for the entire state for 1 year doesn't mean they will all be quality trained 3-person officials.

Gotcha - I agree. I don't agree with Snagwells though - what makes a first round game any less important than a final? One and done baby! 1st round games deserve the same quality as finals IMHO

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Gotcha - I agree. I don't agree with Snagwells though - what makes a first round game any less important than a final? One and done baby! 1st round games deserve the same quality as finals IMHO

Some of the boys first round match-up are really tough games.