The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 02:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit Metro
Posts: 509
Unhappy Newbie / Wannabe Mini-Rant on Freshman/JV Refs

Disclaimer - Not yet a ref.

I have seen approximately 15 games this HS season at the boys Freshman and girls JV level, Small school Div., Midwest state. I have been a scorer for approximately 10 of those games, roughly 25 different refs total.

I was surprised to frequently see (at least 75% of the games):
1. Poor Mechanics while reporting fouls - far from reporting area, no hand signals, hard to hear.
2. Poor switching (I thought it's supposed to be every foul - many games this has just been ignored)
3. Poor Hustle - play far in front of both leads and Trails

4. Refs shooting baskets at half time (only saw 1 x)

On the commendable side of the ledger, I did see good knowledge of the rules (well at least as far as this newbie knows them) and good consistency between officials and during the game.

Am I being too hard on my future referee brethren and sistren? (I think I just made up a word).

Last edited by dsqrddgd909; Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 03:33pm. Reason: added numbering
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 02:07pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 View Post
I was surprised to frequently see (at least 75% of the games):
1Poor Mechanics while reporting fouls - far from reporting area, no hand signals, hard to hear.
2Poor switching (I thought it's supposed to be every foul - many games this has just been ignored)
3Poor Hustle - play far in front of both leads and Trails

4Refs shooting baskets at half time (only saw 1 x)
Yes, I think you're being too hard on them. Other than #4, that is.
#1 and #2 come with experience and practice.

#3 comes with fitness and experience.

Am I right that you've not reffed much yet? I wouldn't be too critical of 1-3 until you've been out there, a lot. when you're focusing on the game and keeping the knuckleheads under control, sometimes mechanics can fall by the way side for newer officials.

I can live with these things as a partner as longs they have good judgment, good rules knowledge, and don't try to find the ball when the final horn sounds.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 02:17pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,120
I think it is a safe assumption that you are not seeing the best officials or the most experienced officials on a regular basis. I am sure a lot of what you are seeing is more a reflection of inexperience and people trying to learn. What you are saying sounds typical of those levels in many places.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 03:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 1,069
They come in all sizes and shapes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 View Post
Am I being too hard on my future referee brethren and sistren? (I think I just made up a word).
dsqrddgd909:

In my area, these games are filled by ADs. Some ADs just want a body, while others sincerely try to employ the best available official. Subsequently, you will see a wide spectrum of performances.

Officiating within the gamut of levels, mostly because I am an officiating "junkie", provides me an opportunity to work with a wide range of officiating abilities. More often than not, I am partnered with less experienced officials; many of whom ask multiple questions as eager learners. Unfortunately, I also get partnered with officials who meet the criteria of your observations. Some are a downright embarrassment to the avocation.
__________________
"Stay in the game!"

Last edited by williebfree; Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 03:24pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 03:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit Metro
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Am I right that you've not reffed much yet? I wouldn't be too critical of 1-3 until you've been out there, a lot. when you're focusing on the game and keeping the knuckleheads under control, sometimes mechanics can fall by the way side for newer officials.

I can live with these things as a partner as longs they have good judgment, good rules knowledge, and don't try to find the ball when the final horn sounds.
Yes, very little officiating experience. Not yet registered. Thanks for the advice and insight.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 03:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit Metro
Posts: 509
Thanks for the perspective.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 05:31pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 794
it really does vary so much. I wish associations would have stricter rules on taking tests and making sure new refs get training but unfortunately there are time-constraints and a lack of available refs. I knew some refs who passed the test but clearly cheated or got the results from someone because they go out there miss some obvious rules violations. That being said, the majority of refs I work with know what they are doing and the games go smooth.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 07:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SW Kansas
Posts: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
I knew some refs who passed the test but clearly cheated or got the results from someone because they go out there miss some obvious rules violations.
Passing an open book test with the rules right in front of you and applying them at a moment's notice in the heat of game situations are two completely different animals. Assuming a guy cheated on his test because he bungled an interp on the floor is ludicrous.

ADs fill most non-varsity games in my area too, and there are far too few people willing to put the stripes on out here.

That said, shooting baskets at halftime, or, well, EVER....that's a bit much.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 07:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 1,069
More discourse

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInKansas View Post
Passing an open book test with the rules right in front of you and applying them at a moment's notice in the heat of game situations are two completely different animals.
This I agree w/ wholeheartedly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInKansas View Post
Assuming a guy cheated on his test because he bungled an interp on the floor is ludicrous.
Not so quick here... I am willing to give an official the benefit of the doubt, but there are obvious cases out there where the person did not do any rules study and they miss some very basic, common knowledge calls; some are even brazen enough to boast that they "Never opened the book."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInKansas View Post
ADs fill most non-varsity games in my area too, and there are far too few people willing to put the stripes on out here.
In my opinion our state association only pays "lip service" to the recruitment of new officials. Even more sad, our local association does very little to truly welcome and assist new members. I have voiced my concerns on deaf ears, until there is a "Changing of the guard" I don't foresee any improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInKansas View Post
That said, shooting baskets at halftime, or, well, EVER....that's a bit much.
Agree!
__________________
"Stay in the game!"
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 23, 2009, 09:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 View Post
Disclaimer - Not yet a ref.

I have seen approximately 15 games this HS season at the boys Freshman and girls JV level, Small school Div., Midwest state. I have been a scorer for approximately 10 of those games, roughly 25 different refs total.

I was surprised to frequently see (at least 75% of the games):
1. Poor Mechanics while reporting fouls - far from reporting area, no hand signals, hard to hear.
2. Poor switching (I thought it's supposed to be every foul - many games this has just been ignored)
3. Poor Hustle - play far in front of both leads and Trails

4. Refs shooting baskets at half time (only saw 1 x)

On the commendable side of the ledger, I did see good knowledge of the rules (well at least as far as this newbie knows them) and good consistency between officials and during the game.

Am I being too hard on my future referee brethren and sistren? (I think I just made up a word).
dsqrddgd:
I'm a 1st yr.guy and registered with my local HS board as an applicant. I've worked approx. 15 B&GJV games this year between 2 high schools where the AD fills the assignments. To address your comments on your season long observation of JV/Frosh officials from your perch at the table:
1)MECHANICS: I'm sure that in my very first JV game the season (which was my first ever) my mechanics and foul reporting were far from perfect on any number of levels.
2)SWITCHING: When the AD fills the assignment, you have no control over who your P is. You very rarely get a Board ref as P (as they're working V&college), nor have I yet had the opportunity to work w/another new official who might be on the same track as me (trying to make the board) where we would both be working hard on coverage, communication, and mechanics...including switching in the manner that our Board perscribes. Most of the time I'm working with a guy that you couldn't get to switch if you paid him out of your own pocket.
3)HUSTLE:.I agree with you here...there is never a reason not to hustle when you officiate ANY sport. You do not need to be experienced to hustle. It was certainly the ONLY thing I was sure I knew how to do when I started out to becomea ref this season. But I learned quickly that you have to hustle using your head to get to the right spot at the right time at the right angle to make the proper call.
4)SHOOTING THE BALL: Well anyone that would actually think of doing that clearly doesn't have a clue.
My point here is that you can sit there and jump to a conclusion that I'm some guy they just threw a stripe shirt on who's out there for a quick buck.You have no way of knowing if I'm new, inexperienced, prone to making "rookie errors"...but trying real hard EVERY game to get just a little bit better in every aspect of the game. Spending time after my game with the V refs seeking out constructive critiques and tips...and then finding a spot in the stands to watch them work and try to learn by observing.
Don't paint us JV/Frosh guys with the same brush...and one other thing, if you're aspiring to be an official as you said in the OP...be careful about taking shots at a brother or sister official. Not a good way to start out IMHO.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 24, 2009, 06:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit Metro
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
You have no way of knowing if I'm new, inexperienced, prone to making "rookie errors"...but trying real hard EVERY game to get just a little bit better in every aspect of the game. Spending time after my game with the V refs seeking out constructive critiques and tips...and then finding a spot in the stands to watch them work and try to learn by observing.
Don't paint us JV/Frosh guys with the same brush...and one other thing, if you're aspiring to be an official as you said in the OP...be careful about taking shots at a brother or sister official. Not a good way to start out IMHO.
Point well taken.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The 3 versus 2 fallacies, a mini-rant - "Part deux" imaref Basketball 6 Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:39am
The 3 versus 2 fallacies, a mini-rant Rich Basketball 36 Tue Jan 02, 2007 09:43pm
Freshman are still learning LepTalBldgs Basketball 17 Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:19am
Freshman Coach Ejected.... Larks Basketball 25 Tue Dec 31, 2002 03:03pm
Help for Wannabe asby Basketball 6 Mon Dec 23, 2002 08:26am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1