Conduct: Both Players and Officials

[camargue44]

Haha. The only thing I could see you construing as being "testy" is #17 which is really a direct response to a question asked. The only "testiness" I see is the use of the word "silly" in reference to someone's activities and questioning someone's physical toughness. I mean come on, really?

Every other one of my posts following my initial question is some form of thanks. And my "telling officials what to do"? More like, this is my expectation - tell me where I'm wrong (read: I'm willing to admit I don't have all the facts!) - that's pretty much my first post summed up.

Now will I bicker over whether I think the call was right? Haha...sure..that was distracting to the main point of the thread - I agree. It is what it is. Nothing to be done now. But don't lump that together with some unrealistic expectation I have for officials to make me happy - I don't. I think my main question was separate and distinct - the actual in game call was merely context.

And your darn right - I didn't HAVE TO come to an officiating board. I came because I often have questions and through reading other threads tonight I've learned a lot: about calls, how games are called, why an official's perspective makes it hard to see all the angles sometimes, etc. This was the best place to ensure that in future games I understand calls being made.

So the next time I don't get an explanation on a call I know there's nothing that says I should - it's only a courtesy. Had I not come here I would have walked around misinformed - certainly, we want players and officials on the same page - more productive environment for all. I also thought this was a better place to have this discussion than during a game.

[just another ref]

Cam, for the record, what is your perception of the quality of the officiating as a whole in your league, and do you know what the officials' qualifications are?

One thing is certain, many officials avoid all rec leagues, regardless of the money, which usually is less than what is paid at the high school level. This is true of all rec leagues, but adult rec leagues are indeed famous for being populated by guys who still think they can play when some never could. A seemingly innocent question such as yours, can easily escalate into a "No, I didn't," "Yes, you did," festival, which is something most officials try hard to avoid.

Having said all this, the law of supply and demand often kicks in. The "job interview" might contain questions like: Have you ever reffed before? Do you have a whistle? What time can you be here? Or even, "Hey, when your game is over, one of you guys wanna call the next one?"

THEN, sometimes when one "real official" shows up and finds out who his partner will be that day, let's just say it can be disheartening.

So, to summarize, if you got hit with an elbow, and you got tagged for the foul, and it was a horrible call, suffice to say, it could be worse.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Cam, for the record, what is your perception of the quality of the officiating as a whole in your league, and do you know what the officials' qualifications are?

One thing is certain, many officials avoid all rec leagues, regardless of the money, which usually is less than what is paid at the high school level. This is true of all rec leagues, but adult rec leagues are indeed famous for being populated by guys who still think they can play when some never could. A seeming innocent question such as yours, can easily escalate into a "No, I didn't," "Yes, you did," festival, which is something most officials try hard to avoid.

Having said all this, the law of supply and demand often kicks in. The "job interview" might contain questions like: Have you ever reffed before? Do you have a whistle? What time can you be here? Or even, "Hey, when your game is over, one of you guys wanna call the next one?"

THEN, sometimes when one "real official" shows up and finds out who his partner will be that day, let's just say it can be disheartening.

So, to summarize, if you got hit with an elbow, and you got tagged for the foul, and it was a horrible call, suffice to say, it could be worse.

I wouldn't work an adult rec league if the league begged and offered 3X their normal rate. Not only do I have to deal with the players, I have to deal with partners who I wouldn't hire to work middle school games try to handle a bunch of whiny adults. I'll stay home, thanks.

I work HS varsity games (and I'll fill in at the JV level once in a great while if I'm asked to by a school that's treated me well in the past) and that's it. I know I'm not the only one who does this -- many of my regular partners do, too.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by camargue44

Haha. The only thing I could see you construing as being "testy" is #17 which is really a direct response to a question asked. The only "testiness" I see is the use of the word "silly" in reference to someone's activities and questioning someone's physical toughness. I mean come on, really?

I almost always find it silly that someone like yourself, has never officiated comes here and tries to debate with people that have officiated about what an official should or should not do. You were given an answer early on and you wanted to debate the issue instead of realizing that what people were telling you was spot on you insisted you had a right to some detailed explanation.

Even if you thought you did not foul the player, the official did so there is not much to debate about that fact. And in your games you are lucky if you get someone that did not buy their shirt from Target in the athletic section. You need to get a little perspective as to who would be at your games. You are not going to get D1 officials or former NBA guys working most of the time.

Peace

[camargue44]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

.

And in your games you are lucky if you get someone that did not buy their shirt from Target in the athletic section.

I'm perfectly happy with the insight everyone provided. Unfortunately, I think you could be right. I wish there was a quick and easy way to know if those who officiate our league have some training. If the situation is that which you just described I and my money would go elsewhere - still understanding that as you said, my chances are slim to none that I'll get someone with D1, NBA, maybe even high school level experience.

[Adam]

I've done rec leagues, and I can tell you if you had officials with the proper uniform (even if they were wearing shorts), you are doing well. You could always talk to the folks who run the league and ask them where they get the officials.

One more thought, you could always go one step further and figure out who to contact to start officiating some ball.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've done rec leagues, and I can tell you if you had officials with the proper uniform (even if they were wearing shorts), you are doing well. You could always talk to the folks who run the league and ask them where they get the officials.

One more thought, you could always go one step further and figure out who to contact to start officiating some ball.

I've done rec leagues with DII officials.
It goes pretty smoothly.

[camargue44]

Originally Posted by mick

I've done rec leagues with DII officials.
It goes pretty smoothly.

I think you're right and I should just ask. All of the more competitive leagues here charge similar amounts. I'm sure there are some who employee untrained officials to make a bit more money. Now I'll have to rely on their honesty in telling me where they get their officials. Haha...we'll see how that works out!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by camargue44

I think you're right and I should just ask. All of the more competitive leagues here charge similar amounts. I'm sure there are some who employee untrained officials to make a bit more money. Now I'll have to rely on their honesty in telling me where they get their officials. Haha...we'll see how that works out!

Just tell them you're considering getting started officiating and want to know who assigns their officials.

I work days (7-4) and have a very supportive boss. When I worked nights, officiating wasn't an option for me as my nights off were reserved for family. If you live in a large enough metro area, there should be kiddy ball on weekends, mornings and evenings, that would be a good start.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mick

I've done rec leagues with DII officials.
It goes pretty smoothly.

I can imagine. If you have a good partner in these games, it makes all the difference.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I can imagine. If you have a good partner in these games, it makes all the difference.

The league was coming around nicely until, sadly, the girls went to the winter schedule.
We worked two 3-whistle games for that adult league.
Then we went out for beers and chow and chat.
I think we were paid $20/game and it was a nice change of pace in the middle of the week.

[camargue44]

I've thought about getting certified to start officiating BUT I'm afraid my work schedule would prevent me from making a solid commitment.

When any of you began the process what sort of schedule did you have?