game management vs. play calling - Page 4

dblref · #46 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 06:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by eroe39
... However, referees need to use the accumulation theory. Several touchy contact plays equal one foul. The same follows for handchecking with me. If a player does it a couple of times and I pass on it the next time he does it, although it might be light, I am going to call a foul just to send a message to him to get his hands off so I don't have to make tough decisions all night. The official with no game management skills would look at the play I called a foul and say it was too cheap....

I'm with you here, Eli.
...Especially when you have been asking him to "clean it up" all night.
I get tired of baby sittin'.
mick

Did this last weekend. Couple of trips down the court in the first quarter, told a player to knock off the hand check. Third trip down the court, same hand check. Tweet! No more hand check.

kslcol · #47 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 07:37am

There is no correct answer to this question. You need to be both a "good play caller" as well as a "good game manager." This is somewhat of a trick question- plus I have to admit, I was in the same meeting the person who started the original thread was in and had insight to the "answer." You know what they say...information is power!

BktBallRef · #48 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 09:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by kslcol
There is no correct answer to this question.

No, there isn't. But everyone has an opinion on it!

rainmaker · #49 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 10:34am

I have not checked in on ths thread, bcause I was waiting to see how crew "managed" the discussion, since I think his "call" in asking the question was wrong.

I am reminded of a time when my daughter was being particularly difficult and troublesome and I asked the counselor I was seeing which was more important, "Discipline or love?" She said, "It's all important." That's literally, word for word, all she said. That was five years ago and I'm still chewing over it with my daughter 3000 miles away, and three different children being difficult.

I think it fits here. The people at the top like Eli, Drake, and others who do the best basketball in the world, have it all. You simply can't succeed without all the above, can you?

Mlancaster · #50 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 11:27am

The bottom line is that GAME MANAGEMENT skills are what seperate a "Good" official from a "Great" official.

Anyone can call a game. Few can manage a game.

ChuckElias · #51 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mlancaster
Anyone can call a game.

Perhaps; but not just anyone can call a game well. It's not as simple a thing as you make it sound. As this entire thread makes clear, the issue is not as cut-and-dried as you make it seem.

Chuck

rockyroad · #52 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 03:07pm

[ As this entire thread makes clear, the issue is not as cut-and-dried as you make it seem.

Chuck [/B][/QUOTE

And it never will be...I work for two different collegiate supervisors...one puts huge importance on calling the game correctly, the other stresses the game management side...when I am in gym A, I know I better do things one way, but when in gym B, I know I better do things this other way...be as good as possible at both aspects of the game, and do what your supervisors direct you to do...

AK ref SE · #53 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 18, 2002, 04:12pm

I have to agree with Rockyroad...you call the game the way the way your area wants it to be called, it is up to the assignor what he wants....a game where all the calls were made....or whether the game was managed well. To me a great official is one that is able to adapt to any situation that he/she is thrown into!

AK ref SE

My opinion!

bard · #54 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 19, 2002, 10:18am

I think it fits here. The people at the top like Eli, Drake, and others who do the best basketball in the world, have it all.

Well stated, Juulie. I prefer to work with folks who have both, and my goal is to have both. I believe it is compromising to say you need one more than the other.

donfowler · #55 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 20, 2002, 08:02am

Crew
I was at Proactive Camp with you. The comments here are about as varied as at camp. It can be blamed on me since Shawn & I started this discussion during a tape review. I thought Coach Odom gave the best response.....he kept changing his mind the more he thought about it. I was one of the majority. While I believe getting the play right is important, how many times have we heard in camps and clinics that all coaches want is to manage the game? If you want to discuss things in detail contact me a [email protected]

Have a good summer.

BktBallRef · #56 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 20, 2002, 09:58am

So, Don is the blame for all of this!

Actually, this is an ongoing discussion that will probably never end. It seems to me that there are actually 3 options. Either you wnat to be a grat manager, a great caller, or you want to be both. I have to agree with others who have said that they want to have both. How could anyone disagree with that?

One thing about crew, he can also generate discussion!

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #57 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 20, 2002, 08:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
I have to agree with Rockyroad...you call the game the way the way your area wants it to be called, it is up to the assignor what he wants....a game where all the calls were made....or whether the game was managed well. To me a great official is one that is able to adapt to any situation that he/she is thrown into!

AK ref SE

My opinion!

WRONG!! WRONG!! WRONG!! There is only one correct way to call the game, that is how the rules and and casebook plays are written and interpreted by the rules committee. I am tired of coaches and assigners deciding how rules are to be interpreted and applied. This is how we get into all of these long winded discussions about advantage/disadvantage and other nonsense.

Dan_ref · #58 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 20, 2002, 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
I have to agree with Rockyroad...you call the game the way the way your area wants it to be called, it is up to the assignor what he wants....a game where all the calls were made....or whether the game was managed well. To me a great official is one that is able to adapt to any situation that he/she is thrown into!

AK ref SE

My opinion!

WRONG!! WRONG!! WRONG!! There is only one correct way to call the game, that is how the rules and and casebook plays are written and interpreted by the rules committee. I am tired of coaches and assigners deciding how rules are to be interpreted and applied. This is how we get into all of these long winded discussions about advantage/disadvantage and other nonsense.

Sigh.

ChuckElias · #59 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 20, 2002, 08:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
There is only one correct way to call the game, that is how the rules and and casebook plays are written and interpreted by the rules committee. I am tired of coaches and assigners deciding how rules are to be interpreted and applied.

Mark, you may be tired of it, but that's life. It's Darwinism as applied to officiating. If the NFHS had assigning authority, we'd all be happy as clams to do it exactly as the rulebook lays it out. But if I want to get games (and keep getting them), I have to officiate the way my assignor tells me to. Otherwise, he'll stop giving me games. That's just the way it works. I'm sorry you're tired of it, Mr. Quixote; maybe it's time to find a new windmill.

Chuck

Alligator Bag · #60 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 20, 2002, 11:16pm

If you're not getting them right, you better be the best game manager of all time. I think you can learn management as you mature, if you aren't working your angles correctly you will struggle. Hey, if you are getting them right, you don't have that much to manage!