Why you don't do a 5 second count in your head

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by MJT

After my blood pressure returned to normal, I said "please tell him why he cannot do that. Coaches will watch for the count in that situation and call a TO if they are getting close to 5."

You have a valid gripe. I believe the Fed would agree in that they added a signal last year (signal 12 on the chart) to clarify if a closely-guarded count has ended. They obviously mean for officials to convey closely guarded information visually for the benefit of all parties.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

You have a valid gripe. I believe the Fed would agree in that they added a signal last year (signal 12 on the chart) to clarify if a closely-guarded count has ended. They obviously mean for officials to convey closely guarded information visually for the benefit of all parties.

Yes, and that signal is also used if you want to clarify that there is no closely guarded situation yet, especially when you hear someone screaming 5 seconds, and they not close enough yet. I use it as a tool to stop the screaming mamie so I can have a clear head to count with!

[chartrusepengui]

When I first started officiating - an older official tried to teach me to do a 5 second count - out was 1, in was 2, out = 3, in = 4, out = 5, in = whistle. Only guy I ever saw do that and no - I never did.

[Fritz]

My closely guarded 5 sec mechanic actually is 4 arm swings on the premise that there are a lot of 1 sec CG instances, so that first sec is in my head and then I start the arm on 2.

For those that say they do an arm on the first second, don't you find your arms in motion a lot then? I originally tried it that way and had a senior partner tell me to stop it and just count 1 in my head and then signal. Before that, my arms were getting tired from constantly being in motion.

[beachbum]

Originally Posted by Fritz

My closely guarded 5 sec mechanic actually is 4 arm swings on the premise that there are a lot of 1 sec CG instances, so that first sec is in my head and then I start the arm on 2.

For those that say they do an arm on the first second, don't you find your arms in motion a lot then? I originally tried it that way and had a senior partner tell me to stop it and just count 1 in my head and then signal. Before that, my arms were getting tired from constantly being in motion.

SEE RICHMSN, there are many officials that do the mechanics different from the exact interpretation of the rules. My statement simply put, was " don't depend on the officials for the arm count, it is risky at best"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by beachbum

SEE RICHMSN, there are many officials that do the mechanics different from the exact interpretation of the rules. My statement simply put, was " don't depend on the officials for the arm count, it is risky at best"

And they are dead wrong. Period.

I'd like to see them explain this to someone showing them a film a four arm swing.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Fritz

My closely guarded 5 sec mechanic actually is 4 arm swings on the premise that there are a lot of 1 sec CG instances, so that first sec is in my head and then I start the arm on 2.

For those that say they do an arm on the first second, don't you find your arms in motion a lot then? I originally tried it that way and had a senior partner tell me to stop it and just count 1 in my head and then signal. Before that, my arms were getting tired from constantly being in motion.

I think Fritz has something worth discussing here -- when it pertains to a 10-second count. If you're L and there's a shot and a rebound, you better be watching for contact, traveling, etc. -- so that it's almost natural that a second or two elapses after B does in fact secure the rebound and start back down court -- and your arm isn't flapping yet. Or is it consensus that B just gets that extra front-end tick or two before the count starts?

Or am I just getting too slow-reflexed in my old age?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Fritz

My closely guarded 5 sec mechanic actually is 4 arm swings on the premise that there are a lot of 1 sec CG instances, so that first sec is in my head and then I start the arm on 2.

For those that say they do an arm on the first second, don't you find your arms in motion a lot then? I originally tried it that way and had a senior partner tell me to stop it and just count 1 in my head and then signal. Before that, my arms were getting tired from constantly being in motion.

Then in the off-season you need to practice your counts with 5-10lbs dumbells in your hand. Do 3-5 sets of 10 in front of a mirror. Mix in raising your hands to the sky with a 15-20lb dumbells.

Originally Posted by Amesman

I think Fritz has something worth discussing here -- when it pertains to a 10-second count. If you're L and there's a shot and a rebound, you better be watching for contact, traveling, etc. -- so that it's almost natural that a second or two elapses after B does in fact secure the rebound and start back down court -- and your arm isn't flapping yet. Or is it consensus that B just gets that extra front-end tick or two before the count starts?

Or am I just getting too slow-reflexed in my old age?

In this case, yes, I will sometimes be to 2 in my head before I start my count.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Then in the off-season you need to practice your counts with 5-10lbs dumbells in your hand. Do 3-5 sets of 10 in front of a mirror. Mix in raising your hands to the sky with a 15-20lb dumbells.



In this case, yes, I will sometimes be to 2 in my head before I start my count.

And I will start a second or two later with "one." I think this is just as wrong as the closely guarded. Coaches look for this and I think they should. It's good coaching.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Then in the off-season you need to practice your counts with 5-10lbs dumbells in your hand. Do 3-5 sets of 10 in front of a mirror. Mix in raising your hands to the sky with a 15-20lb dumbells.



In this case, yes, I will sometimes be to 2 in my head before I start my count.

Well there surely was a dumb bell doing the counting in the OP.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Amesman

I think Fritz has something worth discussing here -- when it pertains to a 10-second count. If you're L and there's a shot and a rebound, you better be watching for contact, traveling, etc. -- so that it's almost natural that a second or two elapses after B does in fact secure the rebound and start back down court -- and your arm isn't flapping yet. Or is it consensus that B just gets that extra front-end tick or two before the count starts?

Or am I just getting too slow-reflexed in my old age?

It should be flapping. If it's not, then you're doing it wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Hogwash, hogwash, hogwash. If you can't do two things at once, become the damn ballboy. The mechanic is simple. When the player is closely guarded, you begin the count with the proper extension of the arm. Each extension of the arm -- STARTING WITH THE NUMBER ONE -- counts toward the five count. While the "not closely guarded" signal is new to NFHS, the fact that we change arms and stop the count has been a mechanic forever.

Officials who do the first one or two counts "mentally" will NOT get to do high level games. I always looked at the official to see if he was counting. The mechanics manual tells us exactly what to do. Don't make excuses as to why you can't do it. Just practice it until you can watch for things like a travel, a bumping foul, a player control foul, etc. while extending the arm and counting.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by Amesman

I think Fritz has something worth discussing here -- when it pertains to a 10-second count. If you're L and there's a shot and a rebound, you better be watching for contact, traveling, etc. -- so that it's almost natural that a second or two elapses after B does in fact secure the rebound and start back down court -- and your arm isn't flapping yet. Or is it consensus that B just gets that extra front-end tick or two before the count starts?

Or am I just getting too slow-reflexed in my old age?

Interesting - I have always presumed that my count starts when my arm starts moving, and that doesn't start moving until I have established that the backcourt team has secured possession.

If that gives them an extra tick or two, oh well. But it goes both ways - count does not start until I decide that they are in control, and that is when my arm begins.

I am rather surprised that it could any other way, to be honest. Learn something new every day.