Indiana\Cleveland Finish

[All_Heart]

Watch starting at the 1:31 mark. (You can click watch in High Quality)

First of all these were good calls IMO (and not easy ones to make). How often do we as officials get the chance to make the same call on back to back plays that are so crucial at the end of the game. I love this game!

I've looked through the NBA rules (link) and I could not find anything that would make this different from NFHS or NCAA. I don't know if they awarded 2 shots for a shooting foul or if they awarded bonus free throws. Lebron was definitely NOT in the act of shooting. So for NFHS & NCAA Lebron would be shooting free throws IF they are in the bonus.

At the 0:23 mark there is a good example of a jump stop (that's right IN THE NBA! )

[JugglingReferee]

I think every official here at OF.com who has been around long enough has had a situation like that: calling two fouls, the same but against opposite teams, at the end of a game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

First of all these were good calls IMO (and not easy ones to make). How often do we as officials get the chance to make the same call on back to back plays that are so crucial at the end of the game. I love this game!

I've looked through the NBA rules (link) and I could not find anything that would make this different from NFHS or NCAA. I don't know if they awarded 2 shots for a shooting foul or if they awarded bonus free throws. Lebron was definitely NOT in the act of shooting. So for NFHS & NCAA Lebron would be shooting free throws IF they are in the bonus.

In NBA rules, at the 5th foul in each quarter they shoot two FTs. I do not think they call it bonus, but that is how those rules are. I would think that late in the 4th Quarter this would not be too hard to accomplish.

Originally Posted by All_Heart

At the 0:23 mark there is a good example of a jump stop (that's right IN THE NBA! )

Maybe I am missing something here, but I see jump stops a lot in the NBA. The problem is when they are performed at the lower levels (especially high school) they are called for traveling.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe I am missing something here, but I see jump stops a lot in the NBA. The problem is when they are performed at the lower levels (especially high school) they are called for traveling.

The problem is when they're attempted at the lower levels, they aren't done right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The problem is when they're attempted at the lower levels, they aren't done right.

I see them done right a lot and I see a lot of incorrect calls. If you do not see them as much at the NBA level, it might be because they get discouraged to try it based on how it is called by officials.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I see them done right a lot and I see a lot of incorrect calls. If you do not see them as much at the NBA level, it might be because they get discouraged to try it based on how it is called by officials.

Peace

Must be a regional thing. I see them done a lot here, and done correctly, and not called. I also see them done incorrectly (both feet do not come down at the same time, or player pivots after stopping) and the coach can't figure out why we called it a travel.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Must be a regional thing. I see them done a lot here, and done correctly, and not called. I also see them done incorrectly (both feet do not come down at the same time, or player pivots after stopping) and the coach can't figure out why we called it a travel.

It must be, because we have a lot of players that have a realistic chance to get to the NBA (many just at the D1 level) and players that are from the inner-city schools try jump stops a lot. But certain officials not from those areas call traveling all the time. There are even some girls that try the move and it is called incorrectly so often that it is useless to try. I agree that some players do not complete the move correctly, but what difference does it make when you are calling all attempts at jump stops traveling?

Peace

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I see them done right a lot and I see a lot of incorrect calls. If you do not see them as much at the NBA level, it might be because they get discouraged to try it based on how it is called by officials.

Peace

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Must be a regional thing. I see them done a lot here, and done correctly, and not called. I also see them done incorrectly (both feet do not come down at the same time, or player pivots after stopping) and the coach can't figure out why we called it a travel.

I agree that this whole area of jump stops is one that is applied VERY inconsistently. I think that the major reason for the confusion is that all jump stops are not the same. For example, Shaqs quote "if a player pivots after stopping" can easily be misapplied -- especially by the younger official.

Shaqs is absolutely correct if the player alights (I love that word ) off of ONE FOOT, that player can legally jump stop (on BOTH FEET at approximately the same time), BUT the the player cannot pivot on either foot after executing such a sequence of events.

HOWEVER, if a player receives the ball with both feet in the air, and jump stops (once again, both feet landing at approximately the same time), that player CAN pivot -- using either foot, but not BOTH feet.

I think that these two scenarios illustrate the two types of situations with dramatically different player rights depending upon WHEN the player receives the ball in terms of whether the feet are both off the ground, one is on the ground or both are on the ground.

If a player continues to dribble until both feet are OFF the ground and jump stops, that player can use either foot as the pivot foot. A travel is often called on players doing this as officials confuse this situation with the situation in which the player dribbles, picks up his dribble, alights (there is that word, again) on one foot into a jump stop.

Several of our local associations do travel/no travel meetings early in the season each year. All fans and coaches think they know what a travel is. In reality, not only to many fans and coaches not know what a travel is, many officials don't either. These sessions tend to help the officials become more consistent -- and accurate -- with this call.

[Adam]

Wow, just read about the game on foxsports, and the Cleveland coach thinks it was a horrible call. What a *$#%.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, just read about the game on foxsports, and the Cleveland coach thinks it was a horrible call. What a *$#%.

I hope you are not surprised.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I hope you are not surprised.

Peace

Nah, I just thought it was funny that he'd bi1ch about it when they'd just given his guy the same exact call on the other end.

[cmar]

Mike Brown should have adhere'd to the phrase "better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

i seen Brown's quote's on SC before i saw the replay, and when i did my reaction "what an idiot, those are no-brainer calls, i can't believe he's whining about this," No one ever said Mike Brown was a good coach, but man, you expect more from a guy who's been around the game for so long

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by cmar

Mike Brown should have adhere'd to the phrase "better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

i seen Brown's quote's on SC before i saw the replay, and when i did my reaction "what an idiot, those are no-brainer calls, i can't believe he's whining about this," No one ever said Mike Brown was a good coach, but man, you expect more from a guy who's been around the game for so long

But, you don't seem to understand. The first foul was in FAVOR of a star (acceptable and expected NBE behavior and result). The second foul went AGAINST a star (completely unacceptable and unexpected NBE behavior and result). Hence, Mike Brown's reaction.

[mutantducky]

When I read about it before seeing the video I thought ok maybe there was a missed call or something. The two plays are really similar. Maybe it wasn't a foul on James but the call was made. If not then the Pacers would have been furious. Brown should get fined or suspended a game.

[Juulie Downs]

at least the ANNOUNCER got it right. "very similar play, same call!"