2 man question, Trail kicks a GT and BI

[roadking]

Good boy JV game, a lot of tall athletic players. I'm lead in a half court set, partner has a goaltending in which everyone in the building including me thinks its a clean block off the glass, I have a good look, play came from my side, ball was on its way up. Partner tweets, hesitates and points as to call GT. He then wants to come to me and talk it over, I tell him as he steps toward me, its your call sell it. Later that half, I'm lead in a half court set, partner misses a obvious BI by the offense.
Question:
Partner had never called at this level of basketball, I know these are judgement calls the trail should have, would you guys of stepped in and corrected the GT and also would you of called the BI from the lead position?
THANKS

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by roadking

Good boy JV game, a lot of tall athletic players. I'm lead in a half court set, partner has a goaltending in which everyone in the building including me thinks its a clean block off the glass, I have a good look, play came from my side, ball was on its way up. Partner tweets, hesitates and points as to call GT. He then wants to come to me and talk it over, I tell him as he steps toward me, its your call sell it. Later that half, I'm lead in a half court set, partner misses a obvious BI by the offense.
Question:
Partner had never called at this level of basketball, I know these are judgement calls the trail should have, would you guys of stepped in and corrected the GT and also would you of called the BI from the lead position?
THANKS

You sound pretty sure that the GT was a bad call. So when he came to you and you had a chance to both bail him out and GET THE CALL RIGHT, you hang him out to dry? Ugh.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by roadking

Good boy JV game, a lot of tall athletic players. I'm lead in a half court set, partner has a goaltending in which everyone in the building including me thinks its a clean block off the glass, I have a good look, play came from my side, ball was on its way up. Partner tweets, hesitates and points as to call GT. He then wants to come to me and talk it over, I tell him as he steps toward me, its your call sell it. Later that half, I'm lead in a half court set, partner misses a obvious BI by the offense.
Question:
Partner had never called at this level of basketball, I know these are judgement calls the trail should have, would you guys of stepped in and corrected the GT and also would you of called the BI from the lead position?
THANKS

roadking,
So, you had two sets of eyes on the ball three feet above the rim. Which one of you saw the backside defensive rebounder elbow his opponent in the throat?

I won't ever step in on a blocked shot in this situation. I don't remember the last time I actually saw the ball hit the backboard on a shot as the lead. First of all, there is way too much stuff that could be happening below the rim in your primary -- especially if the players were as big as you describe. Secondly, if the ball had already contacted the backboard before the shot was blocked, goaltending is the right call more often than not (it is very possible that this block was legal, but the ball is typically fairly close to its maximum height by the time it hits the backboard -- especially if the players are big). Since this is, a judgment call, I would have left it alone.

As for the second one, I would likely have a similar view. But, I would need to have a visual of the play to say for sure. I don't look up toward the basket as a lead unless something unusual happens. For example, if I see a shot go up from the opposite side of the floor, I get to the optimal position for watching the rebound action. I expect the ball to be coming back into view within a given period of time (allowing for the ball to travel to the basket, bounce up off of the rim and then come down). If the ball has not come down and the players appear to be waiting for something, I can't help but take a peak. Generally, in these cases, the ball has gotten stuck on something up above. I can't imagine a situation in which I would be watching above the rim/on the cylinder to be able to make a BI call from the lead.

That being said, if your partner was completely overmatched for this level of game and you saw the BI (still not sure WHY you would have seen it based on your primary), as a coach I would be more understanding on this one (could have been one of those delay situations that I mentioned above). There is no way that I am going to wave the goaltending call off. This was clearly the partner's call, if the ball was above the rim when it got blocked (even if it MAY have still been on the way up), there is no way that I am making that call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

roadking,
So, you had two sets of eyes on the ball three feet above the rim. Which one of you saw the backside defensive rebounder elbow his opponent in the throat?

This is the first year in a while I've been forced to work with people I don't normally see. Some are good, some are not so good. But I've learned one thing from having to nursemaid a young football crew: If I worry about other people's work, mine suffers. What I quoted above was my first thought, although I was thinking "who sees the 2 hands in the back?"

Now, I'm not going to say never on the BI call. If the ball is rattling around there and there are players going up and I have the right angle and see it while getting a look at the rebounding, I have no problem getting it. But that should be very rare, very rare. In 3-person I couldn't ever imagine having to make this call.

[doubleringer]

Lead should not be looking for BI or GT except possibly in transition. In 3 man, the Lead should never look. Give the call to whomever's primary it is. It is their call, right or wrong. Obviouslsy we always want to get it right, but if you get in the habit of looking up during rebounding situations, you are going to get yourself in more trouble more often because you aren't going to see illegal contact on rebounders.

[mbyron]

You were looking where you shouldn't have been, as others have said.

Even if you didn't see the goaltend/block, you can still help him when he comes to you. If it had been me, I would have said, "take a moment, replay it in your mind, and see whether the ball was coming down." Let him change his call if he wants to. Otherwise nod profusely as if you think he's right, and have him signal to count the basket.

If the coach asks, I would explain: "Coach, I clarified the rule for him, and he changed the call. I think we got it right." It's hard to complain about that.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by roadking

Good boy JV game, a lot of tall athletic players. I'm lead in a half court set, partner has a goaltending in which everyone in the building including me thinks its a clean block off the glass, I have a good look, play came from my side, ball was on its way up. Partner tweets, hesitates and points as to call GT. He then wants to come to me and talk it over, I tell him as he steps toward me, its your call sell it. Later that half, I'm lead in a half court set, partner misses a obvious BI by the offense.
Question:
Partner had never called at this level of basketball, I know these are judgement calls the trail should have, would you guys of stepped in and corrected the GT and also would you of called the BI from the lead position?
THANKS

As a 1st year guy trying to climb the ladder and learning from vets both on the floor and here in the forum. I know how lucky I was the night this season when I was finally able to "move up a level" to work my first JV game with a vet who told me in pre-game "don't worry about anything I've got your back if anything happens." Can't remember how many I probably kicked that night, but this vet made me feel good (and gave me confidence) about the things I did right....as did the two V refs who had the next game and saw part of ours. Both my P and the V guys gave me constructive criticism and pointed out what I needed to work on moving forward. My P that night never gave me the feeling that I was a burden to HIS game or that he'd hang me out to dry if the crap hit the fan. BTW while I don't personally know any of the regular vets on this forum (who are generous with thier help and advice to newbies) I know that if I had the opportunity to take the court with any of them they'd treat me the same way...they'd back me on the floor and help me understand at 1/2 time or post game why I may have kicked a call...and what I need to work on to get it right the next time.