Player bumps ref last night

[Scrapper1]

Kansas/Missouri last night. Kansas player is called for a foul. As he walked toward his bench, he intentionally bumped Scott Thornley. Thornley turned around with a look on his face like "Do you really just do that?" and T'd him.

In a HS game, I would also definitely have tossed. In a college game, I think I probably would have tossed. Never having worked the Big 12, I can't say whether I agree or disagree with a non-flagrant T in that situation.

Anybody else see it? What do you think about tossing the kid in that situation?

[JugglingReferee]

An intentional bump? In HS here in Ontario: flagrant for sure. College: my buddy says if it's a light bump, T. But ejection is possible.

[zm1283]

I watched it a couple times. It wasn't flagrant in college. Personally, I thought they just didn't get out of each other's way. Neither the player or the official made much of an attempt to go around each other and they slightly bumped shoulders.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I watched it a couple times. It wasn't flagrant in college. Personally, I thought they just didn't get out of each other's way. Neither the player or the official made much of an attempt to go around each other and they slightly bumped shoulders.

I slowed it down on TIVO and you could see that the player leaned into the official. It was intentional.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Scooby

I slowed it down on TIVO and you could see that the player leaned into the official. It was intentional.

Reminds me of someone.......named OJ

[JRutledge]

I had no problem with the T. I did not think he was ejected, but I would not have minded if that took place.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Kansas/Missouri last night. Kansas player is called for a foul. As he walked toward his bench, he intentionally bumped Scott Thornley. Thornley turned around with a look on his face like "Do you really just do that?" and T'd him.

In a HS game, I would also definitely have tossed. In a college game, I think I probably would have tossed. Never having worked the Big 12, I can't say whether I agree or disagree with a non-flagrant T in that situation.

Anybody else see it? What do you think about tossing the kid in that situation?

My thirteen year old saw it and he has better judgement than half my partners..........he thought it was intentional.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In a HS game, I would also definitely have tossed. In a college game, I think I probably would have tossed. Never having worked the Big 12, I can't say whether I agree or disagree with a non-flagrant T in that situation.

Anybody else see it? What do you think about tossing the kid in that situation?

I saw it when it happened, and was surprised by the T. Then I saw the replay and thought, OK, I can see getting a T there.

I didn't think of a flagrant until you mentioned it. Still seems a bit of a pissing contest to me.

[MOofficial]

Speaking of this game..

Did anyone see the 5 second count against KU? I'm an MU fan and laughed the whole time.

[crazyaboutsport]

I am a big KU fan and I thought the bump was intentional when it happened and still thought that after watching the replays. I don't think he was ejected but he didn't play after that. I think Self just benched him. About the "5" second call??? Don't want to talk about it.

[Drizzle]

Originally Posted by MOofficial

Speaking of this game..

Did anyone see the 5 second count against KU? I'm an MU fan and laughed the whole time.

I actually saw that and was very curious, so before they showed the replay I rewound it on Tivo and used a stopwatch. If you start it the MOMENT the inbounder is out of bounds it was 5.0 seconds when the player touched the ball! (That being said, the first time I timed it I only had 4.5...)

[rockchalk jhawk]

yeah, it was a bit suspect at best. the replay showed he whistled it on the fourth visible count, and this as the ball was being thrown in. my wife (a die hard ku fan), who usually hates watching any sporting event because i stick up for the officials 98.2% of the time (she's a coach ), looked at me and said, "what do you think about that one?" i didn't say much, because i kind of agreed with her. i think we got hosed on that one. [fanboy hat off now]

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk

yeah, it was a bit suspect at best.

Disagree. First of all, the official might not have begun his visible count at "1." That might be poor mechanics, but we often see NCAA officials not counting during a throw-in after a made basket.

Second, KU was taking longer than usual to pick up the ball after a made basket. The count might have begun before the player touched the ball, if the official judged that the ball was "at the disposal" of the thrower.

So I'd agree only that the call appeared suspect. It might have been correct.

[rockchalk jhawk]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Disagree. First of all, the official might not have begun his visible count at "1." That might be poor mechanics, but we often see NCAA officials not counting during a throw-in after a made basket.

Second, KU was taking longer than usual to pick up the ball after a made basket. The count might have begun before the player touched the ball, if the official judged that the ball was "at the disposal" of the thrower.

So I'd agree only that the call appeared suspect. It might have been correct.

eh... we'll probably just ending up having to agree to disagree, but i would have a VERY hard time calling a 5 second count when i had only visibly counted to four. coaches actually watch that type of thing sometimes. and even so, both teams had been taking their time picking up their ball to begin their throw-in throughout the second half. like i said, i'm the first one to defend officiating, even against my own team, but he doesn't have much to hide behind here. we're often told we can only prove what we can see on tape, and the tape shows a 4 second count.

any ref who will go up to a coach, let alone a D1 coach and say, "i wasn't giving a visible count, but I was counting in my head," has more cajones than i do.

[muxbule]

I was at the game sitting 8 rows behind the KU bench. On the T, Thornley and Self had a conversation and it appeared Thornley said that along with the bump the KU player voiced his displeasure at the call. So you not only had a bump but a verbal. Whether he gets booted or not Self imposed his own penalty and did not play him the rest of the game and banished him to the walk on end of the bench.
On the 5 second call, which seemed quick, Self signaled to Hartzell that it was a 4 count and Hartzell fired back by holding up 6 fingers like he waited even longer.
Even though the outcome was not what I was looking for the atmoshere was great for the game.