7 year of commitment and now I'm a cheater?

[Coltdoggs]

Boys 5th/6th grade game Saturday in the league I have been associated with for 7 years...Served two years on their Board recently!

Coach already had one T from me for arguing a push on rebounding action in the 2nd Q. Obvious foul on his "A" player who crashed into two defensive players backs trying to get a rebound.

In 4th Q, after a held ball was given to the other team...I'm headed back down court in and as I pass him at the end of his bench closest to the table I hear "Don't cheat my kids!"

I let play continue at the other end as they were advancing the ball and luckily had a quick score to which I blew the play dead and approached the bench. I asked the coach if he would mind repeating his "cheating my kids" comment and asked if he was questioning my integrity?

To this I was met with him standing up face to face with me saying "I know you are mad at me but don't cheat my kids...you gave them the ball twice in a row!"

I calmly said to him "Coach, if I mistakenly awarded them the held ball twice, that is one thing that can be discussed but if you are accusing me of cheating we have a much larger issue at hand and you are done coaching today...."

He responded with some more talk about me cheating the kids and I asked him one more time was he accusing me of cheating to which he uttered the phrase cheating my kids again. So I tossed him in mid sentence...

Now, I keep a rubber band on my wrists in this league to keep me honest on the AP direction ...league doesn't have poss. arrow at table and score clock box doesn't have that either...) I very well may have forgot to change it...the other team might have had the last held ball in the 3rd Q and got the first in the 4th Q? I don't really recall....I'm pretty good about keeping up with it...

So the coach is gone for the next game (per the leagues following of the IHSAA rules) and he has to petition the board to coach again. Wasn't the first time I've had issue with this knucklehead

I guess I'm most pissed off at the fact I've given a lot of time to this league (unknown to him) the past 7 years...both on the court an off. For this dude to say something like that is outlandish. I guess the $25/game they pay us was just not enough

Ok...just wanted to share with some people who get it and ask you....How would you have handled. A volunteer parent working the score table told the Board Member on duty I let more than enough go....and perhaps I should not have even questioned it if I thought he said it....I think that's why I asked for him to repeat it cause I wanted to be damn sure. What would you have done? For the record, if that was his first T of the day, I would have ruled it flagrant and tossed him.

[Adam]

You gave him too many chances to retract, IMO. I'm not sure I would have confronted him, but once he got face to face with you and accused you of cheating, he's done.

[grunewar]

I guess I'm lucky. While I deal with a lot of Rec Coaches and parents who don't know rules and can't coach for beans......seems I'm avoiding many of the knuckleheads.

Sounds like you gave him an awful long leash to hang himself.... But, in your situation, I'd want to be doubly sure what I've got too and not be seen as an OOO.

Hopefully, with seven yrs in the league and the fact that you seldom T and eject coaches, you've got credibility. He got what he deserved.

[Mark Padgett]

As I've posted before, I've been on the Board of our local kids rec league for 17 years. Many of the coaches know me since a lot of them coach their kids right on up from 3rd grade through HS. If any coach in this group or any other kids rec league I work said I was "cheating their kids" and I heard him or her clearly, they would be gone at that point. And I wouldn't get any grief about it from any kids league I work.

Frankly, I think you gave him way too much rope. There's a difference between complaining about calls and questioning an official's integrity.

[KJUmp]

Question it on the court...you're getting a T. Question it on the diamond..you're getting tossed. That's it...end of story. Justified not justified? I've never particuarly cared...you question my integrity you get no slack.
"Don't cheat my kids" is in a whole other area from the usual..."call it both ways"..."we're not getting the same call"...etc. Yeah the pronoun you is not in there...but "don't cheat my kids" is as personal as you can get about questioning any offical's integrity.

[JRutledge]

At a 5th and 6th grade game, he would have been done being in my face. That is totally unacceptable and not something I would put up with a very experienced varsity or college coach. I am certainly not putting up with being called a cheater at a level than in a week everyone will not be thinking about.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

What would you have done? For the record, if that was his first T of the day, I would have ruled it flagrant and tossed him.

I would have gone straight to him and said, "Coach, I don't expect you to agree with every call I make; but if you accuse me of cheating again we're going to have a problem that I have to resolve."

It warns him without asking him to repeat what he said. I personally don't like the, "Coach, do you want to repeat that," line as it smells like a trap. Just draw the line in neon lights for him (since he apparently see it) and let him decide.

[kwv001]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I would have gone straight to him and said, "Coach, I don't expect you to agree with every call I make;

I like this approach, and in fact use it quite often. I will typically tell the coach I don't expect him to agree with every decision we make, then go on to tell him what I do expect - an end to the running commentary, the constant "request" for a walk to stop, or whatever the case may be. This tact has been succesful for me more than it hasn't.

In this case however, I think it was too late for that. If I was 99.9% sure the comment came from the coach, at the first opportunity that didn't disadvantage the opponent, I would have stopped play and shown him the door.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Boys 5th/6th grade game Saturday in the league I have been associated with for 7 years...Served two years on their Board recently!

By the way, I don't think that your time associated with the league should have anything to do with your integrity. Even if you were walking in the gym for the first time, the coach may be able to question your judgment at times, but the coach better NEVER question your integrity.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Coach already had one T from me for arguing a push on rebounding action in the 2nd Q.

Good.

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I hear "Don't cheat my kids!"

Insert technical foul here.

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

...I was met with him standing up face to face with me saying "I know you are mad at me but don't cheat my kids..."

Or here.

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

He responded with some more talk about me cheating the kids and I asked him one more time was he accusing me of cheating to which he uttered the phrase cheating my kids again. So I tossed him in mid sentence...

Glad to see that you finally tossed him. In my opinion, you never needed to ask him to repeat what he said -- you were sure of it the first time that you heard it. Just use the Whack! Get Out!!!® method ... works every time!

[Coltdoggs]

Thanks for the feedback gang...

Just to clarify...Yes, I was pretty sure of what I heard him say the first time and yes, I stopped play to be 100% sure. My mind was already made up he was done for the day after that comment....I wasn't trying to bait him or give him an opportunity to retract the statement....I just wanted to be certain of what he said so that I could give my "report" back to the league.

This particular guy does have a history of getting loud about calls and his focus has become the officials rather than the kids from time to time...those times have been dealt with accordingly (see T#1)

What I have learned from the reading of responses is that I could have chosen a better question or simply T'd/Tossed him without any conversation.

I know the league policy and code of conduct forward and backward and how they handle things...I've been with the league 7 years and assisted the Board for my the first 4 years in an unofficial capacity as a rules interpreter and advisor...spent the past two on their Board as an official voting member. I've since moved on from Board status because I don't live in that school township any longer.

I didn't want there to be a case of he said, I said and there was at least 3 others who were present at the table and acknowledged his "cheat my kids" comment.

This guy will sit out their first game Saturday and has to petition the Board for reinstatement. I told them I'd allow him to coach again with the understanding that any further incidents regarding officials will result in his removal from the league. 12 Teams in this 5th/6th grade league and 11 of the coaches never say a word to the officials.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Coach already had one T from me for arguing a push on rebounding action in the 2nd Q.

Strike one

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

In 4th Q, after a held ball was given to the other team...I'm headed back down court in and as I pass him at the end of his bench closest to the table I hear "Don't cheat my kids!"

Strike Two

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

To this I was met with him standing up face to face

Strike Three

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

with me saying "I know you are mad at me but don't cheat my kids...you gave them the ball twice in a row!"

Strike Four

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

He responded with some more talk about me cheating the kids and I asked him one more time was he accusing me of cheating to which he uttered the phrase cheating my kids again.

Strike Five

Way to much rope!
should have been done at two three at the most.