Blind Corner

[rainmaker]

Okay, so you've got your trail official at upper left, and your lead official at lower right. The ball and about four players are all in the upper right corner of the front court. Hands and arms flying, or, nothing obvious happening, and then all of a sudden the crowd roars, "WWWHHHOOOOOAAAAAAA!!!!" and one player comes sprinting out with the ball and two players (other team) look at you like you've sprouted horns and -- hey, let's face it, you missed it!!

Next time, what adjustments do you make to try to cover the floor a little better?

[Tim Roden]

Trail should be high and somewhat onto the court to get a good look through. The Lead should be at the three point line. But his eyes should be on the paint. He should be watching the ball with his periferal vision in order to see the ball go OOB but he should depend on the Lead for direction. This is an extreamly difficult play for two man. take the film to whoever makes the decisions and convince them that a third official would have got the call right.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Tim Roden
Trail should be high and somewhat onto the court to get a good look through. The Lead should be at the three point line. But his eyes should be on the paint.

I can see this as the ball is coming up court, but once the lead is on the endline, he can't come back onto the court, can he? Especially if there are three or four players in the paint and another two or three at lower left. The play I saw, (fortunately, I wasn't working) was that the ball was already settled into the front court, and was moving around the arc. As it got into this difficult area, the defense pressed up hard, the ball-handler began to dribble and moved back into the corner, with a team mate sort of following and trying to get open for a pass. So the Lead was already clear down under and had his hands very full.

I was wondering how far across and how far back the trail might move to get an angle. And the lead should probably pick up everything else, eh? And does this happen often enough that it ought to be in the pre-game?

This is an extreamly difficult play for two man. take the film to whoever makes the decisions and convince them that a third official would have got the call right.

Tim, this is a great call!! How long will it take, do you think, to convince them?

[Tim Roden]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I can see this as the ball is coming up court, but once the lead is on the endline, he can't come back onto the court, can he? Especially if there are three or four players in the paint and another two or three at lower left. The play I saw, (fortunately, I wasn't working) was that the ball was already settled into the front court, and was moving around the arc. As it got into this difficult area, the defense pressed up hard, the ball-handler began to dribble and moved back into the corner, with a team mate sort of following and trying to get open for a pass. So the Lead was already clear down under and had his hands very full.

I was wondering how far across and how far back the trail might move to get an angle. And the lead should probably pick up everything else, eh? And does this happen often enough that it ought to be in the pre-game?

Think of what the book says about where the official should be during a stall. They are pretty high and wondering onto the floor. The Lead on the end line has no call here. Not until the ball comes below the free throw line.

Pregamed? Maybe. When I travel with an official to a game, I may discuss a play like this.

[/QUOTE]

This is an extreamly difficult play for two man. take the film to whoever makes the decisions and convince them that a third official would have got the call right.

Tim, this is a great call!! How long will it take, do you think, to convince them? [/QUOTE]
A Long Time. It takes a lot of work to convinced someone who is only looking at how much it will cost to put a 3rd official on the floor.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Okay, so you've got your trail official at upper left, and your lead official at lower right. The ball and about four players are all in the upper right corner of the front court. Hands and arms flying, or, nothing obvious happening, and then all of a sudden the crowd roars, "WWWHHHOOOOOAAAAAAA!!!!" and one player comes sprinting out with the ball and two players (other team) look at you like you've sprouted horns and -- hey, let's face it, you missed it!!

Next time, what adjustments do you make to try to cover the floor a little better?

Trail can (and should) go into the backcourt, and out onto the court to get coverage of this.

Lead can "peek" to help out -- there usually isn't much action going on down low during this trap -- all the players are watching to see the results as well.

[Kelvin green]

My two cents...
It is in your primary, your call go get it it. If that means you need to go all the way over, so what?

Too many officaials think that we have to have the floor balanced and if we break that magic rule it some heresy in the officiating world. Even if you get stuck there lead can go across the floor pretty easy if needed...

There is nothing wrong with being in the middle of the floor, or far lane line or farther if there are a bunch of players over there. Mechanics help us get it right but we have to use function over form. Heck let's say that the play was right in fromt of the bench, the coach is standing right on top of it, and youre over there and you get it right. The coach cant complain. If you are 40 ft away they will have something to yell at.

What's an evaluator going to say, you got it right but you called from too close because you left the perfect mechanic...

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
My two cents...
It is in your primary, your call go get it it. If that means you need to go all the way over, so what?

Too many officaials think that we have to have the floor balanced and if we break that magic rule it some heresy in the officiating world. Even if you get stuck there lead can go across the floor pretty easy if needed...

There is nothing wrong with being in the middle of the floor, or far lane line or farther if there are a bunch of players over there. Mechanics help us get it right but we have to use function over form. Heck let's say that the play was right in fromt of the bench, the coach is standing right on top of it, and youre over there and you get it right. The coach cant complain. If you are 40 ft away they will have something to yell at.

What's an evaluator going to say, you got it right but you called from too close because you left the perfect mechanic...

That post sums it up about as well as any!

[BigJoe]

Mr. Green hit the nail right on the head on this situation. The trail has to come over and help out the lead on this situation. The lead should slide over toward the sideline (his line to call) maintain a 45 degree angle toward the lane, and between the two of you, you should get this call. If you have four players in that upper corner you will not likely have anyone posting up as we either have a trap situation or a loose ball. I see alot of officials as the trail stay on the sideline when the ball is cross court and a trapped ball situation is occurring. The trail must help the lead on this call and slide over at least to the top of the key maybe even farther as the situation warrants.

[Rich]

The lead has no business even looking at the ball in this situation. The ball is above the free-throw-line-extended, which in 2-man means the ball belongs to the trail. If the lead is looking up there and the trail is watching, who's watching the other 7 or 8 players?

The lead should be watching off ball, and the trail needs to work over onto the court. When working on the court, work deeper, even coming into the backcourt (as Bob Jenkins has already pointed out).

Many of the top officials here in WI actually give the OOB call above the free throw line extended to the trail since that line is in his/her primary. The thinking is that the lead, doing his job watching off-ball, will not see the out of bounds play. I'm still trying to get used to that one, but they aren't making things up -- this is a recommended alternate mechanic in the Referee Magazine Guidebook.

Rich

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
The lead should be watching off ball, and the trail needs to work over onto the court. When working on the court, work deeper, even coming into the backcourt (as Bob Jenkins has already pointed out).

I agree that this seems logical. So now I ask, "How far across?" As far is if lead were on the other side of the key? Just far enough to get some kind of angle? What is the goal here?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
So now I ask, "How far across?" As far is if lead were on the other side of the key? Just far enough to get some kind of angle? What is the goal here?

The goal, as always, is to get a good view of the whole play. If that means you have to all the way to the other sideline, then that's where you need to go. Of course, you may have to hop back in a hurry to officiate the 3-point shot after the quick skip-pass. . .

Go where you need to be to ref the play. For me, this usually means no further than the "opposite" side of the jump circle.

Chuck

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I agree that this seems logical. So now I ask, "How far across?" As far is if lead were on the other side of the key? Just far enough to get some kind of angle? What is the goal here?

There is NO magic spot to go to. You have to go as far as necessary to see the play. I have seen officials have to almost go out of bounds on that side of the floor to cover the play. When that happened, during the next transistion down the floor, the T becoming new L remained on that side and the old L, new T switched his/her responsibilities and took the other sideline. However, this situation needs to be addressed in pregame so that the new T would realize what is going on and adjust.

[Rich]

I've never actually thought about putting a limit on how far across I will go, but I think Chuck's estimate is a good one.

If you ever watch a game on ESPN Classic from back when they used two officials -- notice how far out on the court those guys work. Watch as Earl Strom comes comes upcourt almost in the middle. I don't try to emulate those guys, but I keep them in mind so I remember that there is no reason I have to be pinned near the sidelines.

I do know that when I go across I am looking to get an angle and give up distance by heading deep, sometimes into the backcourt. Bad things can happen if you are in close, wander across the floor, and a skip pass is picked off six inches in front of you. Let's just say that I learned that first hand about 12 years ago -- my partner and I argued all the way home whether I took that charge (but the coach was not amused)

I won't go all the way to the sidelines. I don't think I need to be that close. Crossing over sides? Not this century for me, unless I'm covering for my partner who gets caught.

Crossing over would bring back memories, though. Remember when we used to have to cross over the court during a live ball to get into the "cadillac" position?

Rich

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Players are limited to in bounds. Officials can and should be wherever they need to be ... in bounds out of bounds, front-court back-court.

And believe me, if the action is in front of the coach, somebody better be just as close as the coach to make the necessary call.... or at least be that close when you are finished making the call.

Remember that moving directly at the play usually does not put you in the best postion - get a proper angle. And that angle may put you in the back court or out of bounds.

[rainmaker]

I agree with all this, in theory. But this weekend I was watching a girls' varsity tournament with very, very good refs. In every game I watched (6) there was at least one foul that was very obvious to all the fans that had the angle, but no ref within view. I started to wonder if the coaches were teaching their kids how to foul in this "blind corner". None of these refs ever slid across not even to the jump circle. Lead wasn't scooted out to the edge, either. Most of these folks have worked quite a bit of college, including some D2 and even one who has worked D1. Why isn't anyone sliding over? Is the college 3-person habit working against these people? I'm not speaking with disrespect, just trying to learn from what I saw.