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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 03:14pm
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What to do?

What would you do?

Situation happened Friday night.

Team A 46 Team B44 with 2.5 seconds left. Team A is at the line for two shots when the Team B coach calls his team over to the bench as Team A lines up to take the two shots.

As lead - I am ready to administer FTs when I notice that the two lower spots are not yet occupied...
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 03:18pm
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You or partner nearest the Team B bench needs to interrupt the coach and request 2 players for the lowest lane spaces. If he doesn't comply, inform him that you need 2 players immediately. If he still doesn't comply, T.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 03:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
You or partner nearest the Team B bench needs to interrupt the coach and request 2 players for the lowest lane spaces. If he doesn't comply, inform him that you need 2 players immediately. If he still doesn't comply, T.
that pretty much cover it.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 03:59pm
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I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.

9.1.2 SITUATION A

Following a time-out by Team B, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1’s first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt. RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)
See proper rules citation below...

-Josh

Last edited by jdmara; Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 04:16pm.
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Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.

9.1.2 SITUATION A

Following a time-out by Team B, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1’s first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt. RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)


-Josh
I think you are missing a key component of the ROP procedure...in fact it is written in the first line of the caseplay you quoted...
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Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:10pm
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What would change if it was a 1 and 1?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
I think you are missing a key component of the ROP procedure...in fact it is written in the first line of the caseplay you quoted...
I know it says after a timeout but I guess I don't see where this would be any different than when there is not a timeout. Maybe I missed a post from another thread along the way, could someone please cite where this is immediately a technical? Thanks

-Josh
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.

9.1.2 SITUATION A

Following a time-out by Team B, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1’s first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt. RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)


-Josh
Wrong rules citation. That case play only applies AFTER a charged timeout. In the situation brong discussed, there was no timeout.

See case book play 10.1.5SitC(b). It's exactly the same as the situation described. It's a "T" with no "delay of game" warning given. Mbyron was correct.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 04:17pm.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:15pm
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Thanks Gentleman

-Josh
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.


10.1.5 SITUATION B: The calling official has reported the foul and is ready to administer the free throw. Free thrower A1 is: (a) huddling with teammates by the team bench area; or (b) is in the semicircle, but teammates are huddling in the lane area. RULING: A technical foul for delay by A1 in (a). In (b), Team A is warned for delay. In (b), if Team A had been warned previously for any delay-of-game situation, a team technical foul would be charged. (10-1-5c; 10-3-6c)
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:17pm
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ROP is after a timout only. T is on the menu if the don't want to occupy thoes bottom spots.

Last edited by AKOFL; Mon Jan 26, 2009 at 04:36pm.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
I know it says after a timeout but I guess I don't see where this would be any different than when there is not a timeout. Maybe I missed a post from another thread along the way, could someone please cite where this is immediately a technical? Thanks

-Josh
I would use 10.1.5.b. as my justification for T since ROP specifically applies following TO or intermission between quarters...
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refsmitty View Post
What would you do?

Situation happened Friday night.

Team A 46 Team B44 with 2.5 seconds left. Team A is at the line for two shots when the Team B coach calls his team over to the bench as Team A lines up to take the two shots.

As lead - I am ready to administer FTs when I notice that the two lower spots are not yet occupied...

FIBA rules - Administer the 1st FT. There is no requirement to fill the bottom 2 lanes spaces & team B better be ready to play by the time I'm ready to admin. the 2nd because the shooter is getting the ball asap.
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Old Mon Jan 26, 2009, 04:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta View Post
FIBA rules - Administer the 1st FT. There is no requirement to fill the bottom 2 lanes spaces & team B better be ready to play by the time I'm ready to admin. the 2nd because the shooter is getting the ball asap.
This is actually a relatively new "requirement" in NFHS.
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Old Tue Jan 27, 2009, 09:15am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
This is actually a relatively new "requirement" in NFHS.
Really? I seem to remember it being in effect 13 (or so) years ago.
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