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Refsmitty Mon Jan 26, 2009 03:14pm

What to do?
 
What would you do?

Situation happened Friday night.

Team A 46 Team B44 with 2.5 seconds left. Team A is at the line for two shots when the Team B coach calls his team over to the bench as Team A lines up to take the two shots.

As lead - I am ready to administer FTs when I notice that the two lower spots are not yet occupied...:(

mbyron Mon Jan 26, 2009 03:18pm

You or partner nearest the Team B bench needs to interrupt the coach and request 2 players for the lowest lane spaces. If he doesn't comply, inform him that you need 2 players immediately. If he still doesn't comply, T.

OHBBREF Mon Jan 26, 2009 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 572583)
You or partner nearest the Team B bench needs to interrupt the coach and request 2 players for the lowest lane spaces. If he doesn't comply, inform him that you need 2 players immediately. If he still doesn't comply, T.

that pretty much cover it.

jdmara Mon Jan 26, 2009 03:59pm

I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.

9.1.2 SITUATION A

Following a time-out by Team B, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1’s first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt. RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)
See proper rules citation below...

-Josh

slow whistle Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 572619)
I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.

9.1.2 SITUATION A

Following a time-out by Team B, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1’s first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt. RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)


-Josh

I think you are missing a key component of the ROP procedure...in fact it is written in the first line of the caseplay you quoted...

Refsmitty Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:10pm

What would change if it was a 1 and 1?:confused:

jdmara Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow whistle (Post 572625)
I think you are missing a key component of the ROP procedure...in fact it is written in the first line of the caseplay you quoted...

I know it says after a timeout but I guess I don't see where this would be any different than when there is not a timeout. Maybe I missed a post from another thread along the way, could someone please cite where this is immediately a technical? Thanks

-Josh

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 572619)
I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.

9.1.2 SITUATION A

<font color = red>Following a time-out by Team B</font>, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1’s first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt. RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)


-Josh

Wrong rules citation. That case play only applies <b>AFTER</B> a charged timeout. In the situation brong discussed, there was no timeout.

See case book play 10.1.5SitC(b). It's exactly the same as the situation described. It's a "T" with no "delay of game" warning given. Mbyron was correct.

jdmara Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:15pm

Thanks Gentleman ;)

-Josh

BktBallRef Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 572619)
I respectfully disagree gentleman. If B is not ready for the free throw put the ball at the disposal of the thrower then indicate a delayed violation. If the FT is made, administer the next throw-in.

If the FT is missed, give a substitute throw-in. If they still refuse to occupy the proper spot, place the ball at the disposal of the thrower. If this free throw is missed, a technical is administered for the delay.



10.1.5 SITUATION B: The calling official has reported the foul and is ready to administer the free throw. Free thrower A1 is: (a) huddling with teammates by the team bench area; or (b) is in the semicircle, but teammates are huddling in the lane area. RULING: A technical foul for delay by A1 in (a). In (b), Team A is warned for delay. In (b), if Team A had been warned previously for any delay-of-game situation, a team technical foul would be charged. (10-1-5c; 10-3-6c)

AKOFL Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:17pm

ROP is after a timout only. T is on the menu if the don't want to occupy thoes bottom spots.

slow whistle Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 572633)
I know it says after a timeout but I guess I don't see where this would be any different than when there is not a timeout. Maybe I missed a post from another thread along the way, could someone please cite where this is immediately a technical? Thanks

-Josh

I would use 10.1.5.b. as my justification for T since ROP specifically applies following TO or intermission between quarters...

Ref_in_Alberta Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 572580)
What would you do?

Situation happened Friday night.

Team A 46 Team B44 with 2.5 seconds left. Team A is at the line for two shots when the Team B coach calls his team over to the bench as Team A lines up to take the two shots.

As lead - I am ready to administer FTs when I notice that the two lower spots are not yet occupied...:(


FIBA rules - Administer the 1st FT. There is no requirement to fill the bottom 2 lanes spaces & team B better be ready to play by the time I'm ready to admin. the 2nd because the shooter is getting the ball asap.

Adam Mon Jan 26, 2009 04:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta (Post 572642)
FIBA rules - Administer the 1st FT. There is no requirement to fill the bottom 2 lanes spaces & team B better be ready to play by the time I'm ready to admin. the 2nd because the shooter is getting the ball asap.

This is actually a relatively new "requirement" in NFHS.

bob jenkins Tue Jan 27, 2009 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 572643)
This is actually a relatively new "requirement" in NFHS.

Really? I seem to remember it being in effect 13 (or so) years ago.


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