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-   -   My first (high school) ejection (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50895-my-first-high-school-ejection.html)

chartrusepengui Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 567715)
I agree! With that being said, how would you handle the coaches who takes 2-3 steps out the box (toward the opposite end of the court) every time you go the other way & sneaks back in when you come his way?

Keep in mind, he's not complaining or whining just coaching and he's back in his box by the time you get there to tell him.
If I wasn't sure about it and they were not complaining, no prior incidents: "Coach - the lines on the floor indicate where your coaches box is. If I see you out of that space I'm requried to enforce the rule. I know you haven't been ranting but I'll still have to enforce the rule. Please stay within the box." Next time he feels obligated to take the 2-3 steps out - I'll feel obligated to whack him - without prejudice!:D

Ch1town Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiasco (Post 567727)
So after the game, the moment the buzzer sounds, of course I'm booking it back to the locker room...

So, I run back to the locker room alone (where the head coach is waiting outside the door to berate my, by the way).

I just shrug my shoulders and say “I guess he decided to have a conversation with the AD on the floor after the game.”
.

Was it a close ending? I just ask because you said you book/ran off the court.

I would help my partner off the court (especially if I'm the R) because if he has to T someone after the game then you might have to clock back in... wait a minute, he proved that he's not gonna T anybody :D

slow whistle Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 567731)
What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?
Like I said I could name the names of the clinicians who have said the very thing that you are saying and then when you work with them they tend to have a bit more of a lenient attitude let's say.....all I'm saying is let's be real...Fri night I worked with two boys state finals officials, the R made the statement in the pregame "Techincal fouls slow down games"...and during the game I'm sure there were instances where both coaches were a foot or three outside of the box and we never had a problem...I am not saying you are wrong, I'm sure the amount of attention paid to this type of thing is state, association and even league(assigner) specific...I am only speaking based on what I have experienced...

chartrusepengui Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:08pm
Quote:
"Techincal fouls slow down games"...
All foul's slow down games - what's his point?

fiasco Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:10pm
Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.

Adam Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow whistle (Post 567739)
Like I said I could name the names of the clinicians who have said the very thing that you are saying and then when you work with them they tend to have a bit more of a lenient attitude let's say.....all I'm saying is let's be real...Fri night I worked with two boys state finals officials, the R made the statement in the pregame "Techincal fouls slow down games"...and during the game I'm sure there were instances where both coaches were a foot or three outside of the box and we never had a problem...I am not saying you are wrong, I'm sure the amount of attention paid to this type of thing is state, association and even league(assigner) specific...I am only speaking based on what I have experienced...
My pet peeve here is that I had an R box us in with this during the coach's meeting. "Coach, as long as you're coaching, we're probably not going to notice you." This guy is a varsity ref (this was a jv game) who does some college; only doing jv because he had to in order to work playoffs.

When he mentioned it to the guys coming to work Varsity, I could tell they were just as annoyed.

slow whistle Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 567731)
What if the coach is on the floor? Are there other parts of the floor you don't pay attention to while the game is going on? Is the clock part of the game? Do you not pay attention to that since it isn't "on the floor"? Subs are usually in the same area coaches tend to wander, so do you not pay attention to subs either?

Dealing with coaches, bench personnel, table crew, and fans are all part of the game. Unfortunately, that is the very attitude that has the NFHS issuing POE's on bench decorum. The specific comment, "As long as the coach isn't bothering me, I'm not going to worry about what they're doing" was specifically addressed in the POE. And when I work with that coach the next night, I have to hear about how his spot on the floor hasn't been an issue with previous refs.

You don't have to be difficult when dealing with coaches who stray - a simple reminder the next time you're next to them should jog their memory. Maybe the next time needs a verbal warning. If both of those do not work, then they are the ones who hurt their team by not following the rules.

Is it fair to the other coach who is staying in their box and following the rules?

Let me clarify though, I don't mean to say "ignore" anybody..of course you are aware of what is going on, but what I am saying more is that I would normally not slow the game down, I might say as I am running by or inbounding "coach please mind the box", or I might walk him back to his bench...but to tech a coach that is two steps outside the box coaching his team, who has not been warned previously for something more egregious, I have never seen that in my area quite honestly...

Ch1town Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow whistle (Post 567733)
I would never tell anyone to ignore it, I'm just saying that I usually don't notice it until it is directed at me...
In transition & whenever there's a whistle, in addition to watching the players on the floor I like to sneak a peek at the clock, table & benches.

Developing good game awareness has really helped me with correcting timing issues before everyone starts screaming, bringing my subs before the horn goes, granting coaches TO requests before they lose it.

slow whistle Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui (Post 567743)
All foul's slow down games - what's his point?

His point I suppose is that T's are more of a production and slow the game down and basically don't call one! Not saying I agree with that style of "game management", if you have something that needs to be addressed you do it....

Rich Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiasco (Post 567744)
Interesting timing....

I just got an email from the AD whining about how my two T's cost his girls the game.

I referred his comments to our commissioner without further discussion.
I hope you CC'd the state office, too. Is there a report you have to fill out with them on an ejection?

fiasco Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 567750)
I hope you CC'd the state office, too. Is there a report you have to fill out with them on an ejection?
We fill out a report and send it to our commissioner, who sends it to the state.

The AD did tell me in his email, though, that they had already decided to pull the coach for the next game, though.

slow whistle Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 567748)
In transition & whenever there's a whistle, in addition to watching the players on the floor I like to sneak a peek at the clock, table & benches.

Developing good game awareness has really helped me with correcting timing issues before everyone starts screaming, bringing my subs before the horn goes, granting coaches TO requests before they lose it.
Agreed I check the table every dead ball..again of course you notice the coaches, what I said was tongue in cheek thus the :)....I notice, but don't always "notice"...there are obviously limits, a coach "coaching his team" out in front of the scorer's table is going to get dealt with much more quickly and harshly than a coach who steps out two steps when his team is at the other end of the floor and then is back in when the ball is at his end...the rule is that he is to be inside the box, so unless any of you can honestly say that you enforce this 100% (ie no toes out) to a T (no pun intended), all we are really talking about is degrees which like I said I'm sure vary depending on where you are...

jdw3018 Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 567746)
"Coach, as long as you're coaching, we're probably not going to notice you."
This quote, or something along the lines of "Coach, your box is marked. We're not going to get too worked up over the lines unless you give us reason to," is pretty common around here.

And, quite frankly, I've got no issue with it. If a coach is coaching, and pretty much staying in his box, I'm not concerned with a step or two outside the lines. Don't get on the court when play is there, don't be in front of the scorer's table, and we don't have an issue. That's pretty much accepted in my area as long as the coach isn't on us.

However, if he wanders too much or starts to gripe, he gets a gentle warning to stay in the box and then we pay attention. If he gets whacked and is seat belted, then it's a pretty strict interpretation.

slow whistle Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 567755)
This quote, or something along the lines of "Coach, your box is marked. We're not going to get too worked up over the lines unless you give us reason to," is pretty common around here.

And, quite frankly, I've got no issue with it. If a coach is coaching, and pretty much staying in his box, I'm not concerned with a step or two outside the lines. Don't get on the court when play is there, don't be in front of the scorer's table, and we don't have an issue. That's pretty much accepted in my area as long as the coach isn't on us.

However, if he wanders too much or starts to gripe, he gets a gentle warning to stay in the box and then we pay attention. If he gets whacked and is seat belted, then it's a pretty strict interpretation.
Agree completely.

M&M Guy Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow whistle (Post 567747)
Let me clarify though, I don't mean to say "ignore" anybody..of course you are aware of what is going on, but what I am saying more is that I would normally not slow the game down, I might say as I am running by or inbounding "coach please mind the box", or I might walk him back to his bench...but to tech a coach that is two steps outside the box coaching his team, who has not been warned previously for something more egregious, I have never seen that in my area quite honestly...
And if you notice, I said the same thing you did - the 3 W's: wremind, warn, whack. :rolleyes: :D

Of course we don't throw out T's for the coach who is a step or two outside the box, especially before I've had a chance to remind them about it. And I would be curious as to the context of your partner's comment about "T's slow down the game". Can you help remind a coach to stay in the box instead of giving a T the first time? Sure. A T in that case would slow down the game. Can you help communicate with a coach and address their concerns instead of letting them vent to a point where it is hard to ignore their behavior? Sure. Sometime communication skills can help difuse a situation that would otherwise have to be addressed. But I hope they do not mean "avoid giving a T", even if the situation warrants.


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