Interesting T

[deecee]

We stop the clock for many reasons. If after a score the ball takes an odd bounce and rolls under the bleachers. To tie ones shoes. Whatever. This is a stoppage of play for about 3-5 seconds.

As for how high the ball goes -- I dont care -- it could enter orbit, height has no bearing on whether or not I T, it certainly doesn't when it comes to a legal dribble or not as well.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Shirley - you jest!

An official does not have the authority to charge a timeout to himself

Does it really matter what we call it?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Does it really matter what we call it?

Well it does matter but that wasn't really my point,
my point was that he was going to take time out /suspend play to discuss the behavior of player who had slammed the ball "into the rafters" according to the OP.
Even if that is just in frustration that has to be a T.
The child has to learn to take responsibility for their actions and control themselves and saying it doesn't matter how high they slam it you are not going to T - them you are going to talk them down is a problem for the game.
you are not there to be a counsler.

Yes I have done it with kids - used some dead ball time to stop a situation from going any further, with two players involved yes, but not for something that would be this blatant.

I am just saying do not go coaching and counseling players individually in situations where everyone already thinks there should be a T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, what at what height is the dividing line between "automatic T" and telling the little sh!t to knock it off?

(I'm kinda enjoying channeling our Ancient Dinosaur.)

It's somewhere between 5 feet and the rafters.

Now, STFU.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's somewhere between 5 feet and the rafters.

Now, STFU.

A player can bounce the ball in anger as high as he wants, but if the ball comes down it is a TF, .

MTD, Sr.

[deecee]

Ill give the kid the benefit of the doubt here. Its not like this is a rampantly occuring item during games where we need to worry about will the kid learn a lesson or not from a T or not T. Either way he will learn, as long as someone tells him.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by deecee

Either way he will learn, as long as someone tells him.

So, let me get serious for a second - are you saying you would not penalize unsporting behavior, as long as "someone tells him"? Do you not call a travel on a drive to the basket, as long as the coach tells him, "Good move, except you traveled on that; don't do that anymore"?

What if the other team asks if you screwed them out of a couple of FT's and a possesion because you didn't make the proper call? As long someone tells the player, it's ok?

[Adam]

Quickest way for him to learn is with a T. And no coach in the world will question a T on a ball bounced to the rafters. Neither would any assigner that I know of. I'd have a harder time justifying not calling this when the other coach wonders why it wasn't called and asks my assigner.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

A player can bounce the ball in anger as high as he wants, but if the ball comes down it is a TF, .

MTD, Sr.

I've always wanted to ask you this: what happens if the ball gets stuck up in the rafters? Do you tell the kid to go buy a lottery ticket, because this is apparently his lucky day?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, let me get serious for a second - are you saying you would not penalize unsporting behavior, as long as "someone tells him"? Do you not call a travel on a drive to the basket, as long as the coach tells him, "Good move, except you traveled on that; don't do that anymore"?

What if the other team asks if you screwed them out of a couple of FT's and a possesion because you didn't make the proper call? As long someone tells the player, it's ok?

I can always count on someone on this forum to compare apples to oranges. How often have you seen this?

Im 8 years I can probably count on less than half the fingers on one hand how many times I have. I think consensus among players are that you cannot do this. The 1 in 5-10 years I see this and it goes down the way I said it would have to, to not get a T, I will act accordingly.

Now to anticipate the next "what if" -- if now every player in that game starts doing this, well then once one player gets his quick little "cut that out" chat I will T. but again, we can argue what ifs until we get carpral tunnel. But this isnt really an issue that comes up often at all. Spiking is pretty much a football move.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I've always wanted to ask you this: what happens if the ball gets stuck up in the rafters? Do you tell the kid to go buy a lottery ticket, because this is apparently his lucky day?

ROFLMAO!!

MTD, Sr.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by deecee

I can always count on someone on this forum to compare apples to oranges.

It's apples and kumquats, by the way. Get it right.

Originally Posted by deecee

How often have you seen this?

Not very often, but how often I've seen it doesn't matter. I was commenting on your statement about simply talking to a player when you see (very likely) unsporting behavior instead of penalizing it.

It's been a couple of years snce I had a coach literally get in my face to protest a call. But, even though I haven't seen it that often, I will still penalize it when I do, rather than try to wait for "someone to tell them" they shouldn't do that.

Frequency of occurance isn't a good barometer on when to talk to a player and when to penalize.

[deecee]

M&M I agree with most of what you say -- there are some instances where a T isnt necessary when it COULD be called. This is one of them. As much as I am an advocate of an official not also playing the part of a coach, there are moments where one can be a teacher and it doesn't effect anything. This is one of those rare moments.

But again I would not say anything to a partner for calling this T, in fact I would probably say "good call" because after all its not a bad call. Its just not one that I would call if it were clear that a player did this out of frustration for turning it over and especially when the period was ending.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

In this, if it is clear that the player is just upset at himself, I would let it go and have a word with him. If there is more time on the clock I would just blow the whistle for an officials time out and have the same word with player.

I wouldn't T a player showing frustration at himself in this manner without at least having a chat with him.

Are you also going to refrain from whacking the opposing coach when he goes ballistic on you asking how a player can bounce a ball into the rafters without penalty?

[deecee]

No a coach wont go ballistic here -- He might be upset and ask why I didnt T and I will explain why. I will also make it clear that my philosophy is extended to both teams on the court. Any coach after hearing a reasonable explanation has 2 choices drop it or continue on and earn his T.

What is unsporting here?

The player is upset at himself and slams the ball in the ground, usually by the time the ball returns to the court its about 2-3 seconds max. Thats also the average time before the ball is at the disposal of the team to throw in.

So the player here is upset at himself and his act isnt done to show anyone up EXCEPT really himself. He's not upset at the offiical or the other team and he hasnt wasted any time. Also No matter how hard I slam the ball, unless this is a small gym the rafters might be too high, I wont reach the rafters. And I am 6'6" 225lbs, and I work out somewhat regularly. So lets just scale back our expectations of touchdown Johnny here being able to do this (the only exception is for an overinflated ball - and that wont happen in my game).

So in the end, I have no problem dealing with players, coaches, the table, admin, and fans. A decent amount of players and coaches should recognize me, since I officiate their games in the offseason as well. For those that dont, they will get an explanation. They dont have to be happy with it, they just have to accept it for what it is and act accordingly.

My best T is one I dont have to call.