Player oob

[tjchamp]

Can a player standing out of bounds draw a foul (other than intentional or flagrant)? For example, B2 is out of bounds under the basket (momentum or some other legal reason). At the same time, A1 has just finished a layup and has come to the ground, then runs into B2 out of bounds. If B2 had been in bounds, no doubt you call a pushing foul.

1. Ball still on rim when contact occurs (live ball)
2. Goal has scored, but team B has yet to get control of ball (dead ball period)

I'm thinking no-call in both cases. B2 is out of bounds, so he cannot have a "legal" guarding position. Also, a foul prevents the opponent from performing normal offensive or defensive movements. Being oob, would already prevent him from performing those.

[Adam]

1. foul on A1. If the foul does not require LGP, then the player may be out of bounds.
2. Ignore it unless it's intentional or flagrant.

If the contact prevents B2 from getting back onto the court, for example, you have your advantage/disadvantage.

All players are entitled to their spot.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

Can a player standing out of bounds draw a foul (other than intentional or flagrant)? For example, B2 is out of bounds under the basket (momentum or some other legal reason). At the same time, A1 has just finished a layup and has come to the ground, then runs into B2 out of bounds. If B2 had been in bounds, no doubt you call a pushing foul.

1. Ball still on rim when contact occurs (live ball)
2. Goal has scored, but team B has yet to get control of ball (dead ball period)

I'm thinking no-call in both cases. B2 is out of bounds, so he cannot have a "legal" guarding position. Also, a foul prevents the opponent from performing normal offensive or defensive movements. Being oob, would already prevent him from performing those.

Unless it was a violent collision I'd probably go with incidental contact. I'm trying to picture how hard a player shooting at the rim, even coming off a drive, can run into a player standing under the basket out of bounds.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Spence

Unless it was a violent collision I'd probably go with incidental contact. I'm trying to picture how hard a player shooting at the rim, even coming off a drive, can run into a player standing under the basket out of bounds.

Let's assume it knocks B2 to the floor. Still going incidental?

Go back to the OP. This is contact that you would judge a foul if B2 was standing in bounds. You have no basis to change that ruling if B2 is standing still when A1 runs into him.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let's assume it knocks B2 to the floor. Still going incidental?

ive worked games where shoelaces knock a player to the ground

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

ive worked games where shoelaces knock a player to the ground

Nice. I've had players get knocked over by anxiety. They were anxious about getting run over so they fell before the contact could happen.

However....

But you know what I meant.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

2. Ignore it unless it's intentional or flagrant.

If the contact prevents B2 from getting back onto the court, for example, you have your advantage/disadvantage.

All players are entitled to their spot.

Legally obtained position on the floor
OOB is not addressed - so yes ignore unless it is intentional or flagrant.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Legally obtained position on the floor
OOB is not addressed - so yes ignore unless it is intentional or flagrant.

Are you serious? B2 obtained his position legally by momentum. That's a given for the case play; otherwise you have a violation.

If B2 obtained his position legally, and gets knocked to the floor by what would be a common foul anywhere else on the floor, call the foul!

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Are you serious? B2 obtained his position legally by momentum. That's a given for the case play; otherwise you have a violation.

If B2 obtained his position legally, and gets knocked to the floor by what would be a common foul anywhere else on the floor, call the foul!

You can't obtain legal position OOB. It is not part of the playing court. The fact that the player ended up there via a legal method (momentum, etc) simply means there was no violation commited by the player, but still doesn't change the fact that they have no legal position on the playing court. So unless the contact is flagrant or intentional, I'm going with nothing if a player gets contacted OOB.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

You can't obtain legal position OOB. It is not part of the playing court.

Bull puckey. Where is the rule that says this? You can't find it.

You can't have LGP standing OOB, but that's it. This foul doesn't require LGP since B2 is not moving.

Show me the rule that says B2 isn't entitled to a position just because it's out of bounds.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

B2 is out of bounds under the basket (momentum or some other legal reason). At the same time, A1 has just finished a layup and has come to the ground, then runs into B2 out of bounds.

Where is the foul? That is incidental contact unless it is intentional or flagrant
the shooter came down and ran into another player who is not part of the play and the contact does not effect the play, if the player contacted is OOB. it did not prevent him from doing anything - s/he can not rebound the ball from OOB, and if the basket goes it is dead ball, so you are going to make a foul call - dead ball contact OOB - in this situation?

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Bull puckey. Where is the rule that says this? You can't find it.

You can't have LGP standing OOB, but that's it. This foul doesn't require LGP since B2 is not moving.

Show me the rule that says B2 isn't entitled to a position just because it's out of bounds.

Yeah, I think I was confusing things with LGP being an issue here, which it's not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Where is the foul? That is incidental contact unless it is intentional or flagrant
the shooter came down and ran into another player who is not part of the play and the contact does not effect the play, if the player contacted is OOB. it did not prevent him from doing anything - s/he can not rebound the ball from OOB, and if the basket goes it is dead ball, so you are going to make a foul call - dead ball contact OOB - in this situation?

Let's assume it's contact that is a foul if it happens anywhere else on the court. Let's assume that the contact knocked the player to the floor, preventing him/her from returning to the inbounds area. Let's assume the basket is missed.

It certainly does affect play. On what basis do you have incidental contact?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Bull puckey.

Not sure why, but I just got a cold chill. IT IS ALIVE

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure why, but I just got a cold chill. IT IS ALIVE

I figured someone should offer a memorial every now and then.

I'd tell M&M to STFU, but I'm too busy laughing about a moving screen I read about.