Mind your own business?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

No but your partner should be watching your back

The T has on ball coverage so the L watches his back as you say. It's loud an the T can't hear the coach, so of course the L can't hear what the coach is saying either...all he sees is the coach walking out to the middle of the court. For all the L knows he is yelling something to his players. If the coach wants a timeout and the gym is too loud for the officials to hear his verbal request then he can either signal for a timeout or get his players to call the timeout. As I quoted the rule book earlier, a coach leaving the box creates a distinct advantage for his team. Sometimes the advantage is the coach is better able to communicate with his players, sometimes, as it was in this case, the coach was better able to communicate with the officials.

It always surprises me the lengths officials on here will go to not enforce the rules because they incorrectly believe that bad officiating caused the problem...not calling the T with 6 players because the officials messed up by allowing it to happen....not calling a double violation when the teams line up incorrectly for free throws because the officials didn't catch it ahead of time....not calling the T when the coach walks out to the middle of the floor to yell timeout because the officials couldn't hear him because the gym was so loud.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by LDUB

The T has on ball coverage so the L watches his back as you say. It's loud an the T can't hear the coach, so of course the L can't hear what the coach is saying either...all he sees is the coach walking out to the middle of the court. For all the L knows he is yelling something to his players. If the coach wants a timeout and the gym is too loud for the officials to hear his verbal request then he can either signal for a timeout or get his players to call the timeout. As I quoted the rule book earlier, a coach leaving the box creates a distinct advantage for his team. Sometimes the advantage is the coach is better able to communicate with his players, sometimes, as it was in this case, the coach was better able to communicate with the officials.

It always surprises me the lengths officials on here will go to not enforce the rules because they incorrectly believe that bad officiating caused the problem...not calling the T with 6 players because the officials messed up by allowing it to happen....not calling a double violation when the teams line up incorrectly for free throws because the officials didn't catch it ahead of time....not calling the T when the coach walks out to the middle of the floor to yell timeout because the officials couldn't hear him because the gym was so loud.

First of all, prior to administering the throw-in the ball is dead. I don't have a real problem with a coach outside the coaches box while play is stopped and the ball is dead. Second, I still maintain that prior to a throw-in the L has a responsibility to make sure everything is in order before signalling his partner to go ahead and administer the throw-in.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

First of all, prior to administering the throw-in the ball is dead. I don't have a real problem with a coach outside the coaches box while play is stopped and the ball is dead. Second, I still maintain that prior to a throw-in the L has a responsibility to make sure everything is in order before signalling his partner to go ahead and administer the throw-in.

The ball was live in the OP.

[mj]

Originally Posted by LDUB

The ball was live in the OP.

The OP says the T was administering a throw-in. It is not clear if the ball was live imo.

[mj]

Originally Posted by LDUB

It always surprises me the lengths officials on here will go to not enforce the rules because they incorrectly believe that bad officiating caused the problem...not calling the T with 6 players because the officials messed up by allowing it to happen....not calling a double violation when the teams line up incorrectly for free throws because the officials didn't catch it ahead of time....not calling the T when the coach walks out to the middle of the floor to yell timeout because the officials couldn't hear him because the gym was so loud.

That is because all of the above situations are preventable if you know the game situation and simply slow down. We talk about game management on this board all the time and these are prime examples of such.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by mj

That is because all of the above situations are preventable if you know the game situation and simply slow down. We talk about game management on this board all the time and these are prime examples of such.

Of course it is a mistake which could have been avoided, but what does that have to do with not penalizing it? The way to handle the situation is clearly outlined in the rules. Are you friend with the guy who wrote that article about the NBA game with 6 players?

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Of course it is a mistake which could have been avoided, but what does that have to do with not penalizing it? The way to handle the situation is clearly outlined in the rules. Are you friend with the guy who wrote that article about the NBA game with 6 players?

So your judgement is that you would rectify a problem that was caused by your mistake with a Technical Foul? Exactly how long did you plan on refereeing at the varsity level. Being afraid to whack a coach would cost you games around here, but whacking a coach when you were too proud to admit you messed up will cost you just as dearly around here. No one is arguing that the coach should not be on the floor. However, the reasons that the problem developed are mitigating factors.

• If the officials used their game management and awareness skills there wouldn't be a problem.
• The ball was still dead when the coach first started to request the timeout.
• There are other times that we as officials do not enforce the letter of the law...Advantage/Disadvantage....Three Seconds...etc
• The spirit of the rule is to prevent unsporting behavior by the coaches. The only unsporting act in this scenario is the eggregous lack of game management by the officials multiplied by the TRAIL invading the coach's huddle

I still can't believe that a crew would start an inbounding play as described in the OP.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

So your judgement is that you would rectify a problem that was caused by your mistake with a Technical Foul?

Question: Have you ever called a T for 6 players on the court? If so, you're argument is shot full of holes.

I disagree that the official caused this problem. Could they have prevented it? Sure, but they did not cause it. There's a huge difference here.

Does it not matter that the coach was not signaling?

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Question: Have you ever called a T for 6 players on the court? If so, you're argument is shot full of holes.

I disagree that the official caused this problem. Could they have prevented it? Sure, but they did not cause it. There's a huge difference here.

Does it not matter that the coach was not signaling?

Thankfully, in 6 years, I have never had that pleasure. Probably because back when I was on the darkside (CYO Coach) I was victimized by it. So I tend to be a fanatic about that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Thankfully, in 6 years, I have never had that pleasure. Probably because back when I was on the darkside (CYO Coach) I was victimized by it. So I tend to be a fanatic about that.

Victimized? How?

I've called exactly one.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

So your judgement is that you would rectify a problem that was caused by your mistake with a Technical Foul?

I didn't make a mistake. Making sure each team has 5 players is not one of my duties, it is the teams' jobs to make sure they have the correct number of players. Same goes for lining up correctly for free throws. It's not the official's job to get everyone in the correct spot. Saying that the official cause one of those problems by not making sure everything was correct before administering the throw in/free throw is never correct.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by LDUB

I didn't make a mistake. Making sure each team has 5 players is not one of my duties, it is the teams' jobs to make sure they have the correct number of players.

You mean you don't make sure the teams are set before you adminster a throw-in?????? WTF????? That may be the most asinine and ridiculous thing I have ever read hear. You don't resume play unless the teams are set. Players don't come in unless you or your partner beckon them in. You and your partner better not admin a throw-in until you are sure the same number went off as you beckoned on.

If an assignor around here knew that was your attitude and you had a T for 6 players, you would've worked your last high school game for about 300 square miles.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

You mean you don't make sure the teams are set before you adminster a throw-in?????? WTF?????

Of course I count the players. The difference between me and you is that I have no problem calling a technical foul if a team has 6 players; you think to yourself that you don't want to rectify this problem with a technical foul because you caused it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

:

You mean you don't make sure the teams are set before you adminster a throw-in?????? WTF????? That may be the most asinine and ridiculous thing I have ever read hear.

Oh please. That isn't close to what he said.

Of course he uses "preventive officiating" in this situation. We all (I assume) do.

But we recognize that there's a difference between "maanaging the game" and "complying with the rules." The former is our job; the latter is the job of the playewrs and coaches. SOmetimes the actions required are similar (e.g., both want to be sure that each team has 5 and only 5 players), but the specific responsibilities and penalties are different.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by LDUB

I didn't make a mistake. Making sure each team has 5 players is not one of my duties, it is the teams' jobs to make sure they have the correct number of players. Same goes for lining up correctly for free throws. It's not the official's job to get everyone in the correct spot. Saying that the official cause one of those problems by not making sure everything was correct before administering the throw in/free throw is never correct.

LDUB:

So what you are saying is that you do not count players before putting the ball into play. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that you also put the ball into play without making eye contact with your partner(s) too.

MTD, Sr.