Youth "No zone rule" looking for examples

[Coltdoggs]

The boys youth league I have worked with for a number of years uses this for 3rd/4th grade. I don't officiate the 3rd/4th but had input on the written rule.

If you want hard and fast how our refs are to call it...we use the 6' closely guarded rule...if a player is in the FC, the defense must be within 6' of their man. Now they also do not allow any screens above the top of the 3point line extended, double team only in the lane.

Finally, they also have implemented an isolation rule that keeps one or two players from controlling the game and taking all the shots.

They have set up "infractions" if you will...two infractions of zone, double teaming, back court defense lead to a T on the 3rd violation. Each one is noted as it's own violation on the league score sheets. So, 1 Backcourt + 2 isos does not equal a T. Each infraction is counted on it's own happening.


Now, In the travel league I coach in (3rd Grade Girls), must play man to man D and can only double team below FT line in a helping manner.

As Mark P said, it's hard to officiate it because where i come from, any D can be played. But we use the same group of guys each year and they are very consistent in the manner with which they call it.

Philosophically, I understand why you make young kids guard man to man....nobody can shoot outside and they would just pack in a zone and never allow any penetration....That's not right either...Save the zone for later. Besides, playing man to man will make you a MAN!

[Stat-Man]

Our middle school leagues, past and present have some form of this rule.

The old league:
* Man to man was required all game
* Double teaming is allowed in the paint.
* Players can switch or play help & recover d.
* Repeated violations are supposed to be two shots and the ball (most officials never wanted to call this though after the first warning )

The new league:
* 5 periods (3 first half periods of 4:00; 2 second half periods of 6:00). This is to guarantee everyone playing time, though that can also be done with 4 quarter, IMO.
* Man to Man is required in the first half. Switching & help and recorver d is permitted, but trapping seems to be completely forbidden in the first half . Zone is legal in the second half.
* Nothing specified as to what to do for repeated violations.

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There is one coach in this league who feels playing a saggy 2-3 zone inside the 3 point line passes as man defense. We also have another coach who thinks having her player under the basket when ours is at the 3 point line is also man defense. Aside form them, though, eveyone seems to follow the rules as best as can be.

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Funny thing, too. CYO has rules regarding pressing and when pressure defenses can be used. I always keep my copy of the CYO rules at the table, knowing some officials probably have no idea what the rules are and would appreciate having something to refer to. At our opener this year, I had an official tell me to throw those rules in the garbage when I let him know what the league rules were. I did have to chuckle to myself when he later admitted he didn't know our CYO changed a pressing rule 2 years ago. (That's why one doesn't throw the league-specific rules in the garbage )

[Adam]

I prefer, if you're going to have a rule, to allow double teaming any player with the ball at any time any where. Any player without the ball may not be double teamed. It prevents the isolation plays while allowing the benefits of preventing zones at young ages.

Personally, I hate the rule, but I don't run a kids' rec league, so....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Personally, I hate the rule, but I don't run a kids' rec league, so....

I sorta do, and I hate the rule, too.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

CYO has rules regarding pressing and when pressure defenses can be used. I always keep my copy of the CYO rules at the table, knowing some officials probably have no idea what the rules are and would appreciate having something to refer to.

Same here, for Catholic School league:

Younger Junior Varsity (4th and 5th grade):
Players who cannot reach the basket from the free throw line will be permitted to move up as determined by the officials.
No backcourt pressure.
The defense must drop back to inside the three-point arc.
When a team is ahead by ten points their defense shall drop back inside the three-second lane, and cannot reach through to play defense. They can come outside the arc to recover a loose ball.
Offensive teams must attempt to advance the ball. One warning, thereafter a five second count resulting in turnover.

Older Junior Varsity (5th and 6th grade):
No back court pressure for the first seven weeks of the season, unless game within 10 points in 4th quarter.
Beginning week 8, when a team is ahead by ten points, their defense must drop back to the three-point arc.
With a 15-point lead, must play zone and no fast breaks.
Offensive teams must attempt to advance the ball. One warning, thereafter a five second count resulting in turnover.

There are no forfeits in the JV league. If a team has less than 5 players, ‘borrow’ players from another team.

Varsity (7th and 8th grade):
No press or fast breaks in second half with 20-point lead. “No pressing” is defined as any attempt to inhibit the offensive team from moving the ball from their backcourt to their frontcourt. If the offensive team is attempting to fast break, the defense may attempt to prohibit the fast break by picking up players at half court. Otherwise the defense will drop back into a zone, generally inside the three-point arc.
Teams ahead will not fast break. “Fast break” is defined as pushing the ball up the court past the defense, prior to the defensive team’s ability to set up their defense. If the defensive team is attempting to press, the offensive team may use whatever tactics are available to break the press.

Happy New Year.

[Coltdoggs]

Interesting to see what other youth leagues are doing...

We modified our backcourt guarding rule two years ago for 5th/6th. (3rd/4th still use only the last 2:00 of 3rd and 4th Q for full court press.)

No press after made baskets or dead balls and no direct pressure on the ball handler (we use the 6' closely guarded idea in BC for this). They can however guard players without the ball and steal passes or get loose balls.

It used to be no backcourt D at all until the 2:00 mark of Q3 and Q4...Previous, if a kid made a pass to another running down court and it hit him in the back and was just bouncing free in the BC, the defense could not touch it...in short, they had to get back past halfcourt.

They can guard in BC anytime now with those mods in the first half of the season.

Second half of the season, they must follow those rules for Q1 and Q2. Then in Q3/Q4 they can FCP anytime as long as no more than 10 point lead.

My thought was that it was natural for a kid to play D after a rebound or stolen pass and too many were getting called for BC-D...we as a Board felt it encouraged good passing and ball handling and it has really helped with the flow of games too.

[Texas Aggie]

does anyone else think the no-zone rule for kids is a really bad idea?

yes.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

yes.

If you have younger kids, it's not. Packing in a 2-3 and forcing 3rd or 4th grade kids to shoot jumpshots (read airballs) is not teaching anything. It's not teaching on ball defense, it's not really teaching a kid how to play off ball, on the line, up the line D and allowing them to learn floor spacing.

As much zone that is played these days...I know why it's played but in all seriousness...it's to help the weaker defenders who can man up and shut somebody down or force a bad shooting team into outside shots. On the upside, it does promote team passing and cutting...so I guess there's something to be said for it.

[CMHCoachNRef]

As has been pointed out, the problem with allowing 4th and 5th grade teams to play zone defense is that coaches are able to avoid teaching any defensive fundamentals while being successful since many 4th and 5th graders cannot consistently make shots from outside 12 - 15 feet.

All defenses -- man-to-man, match-ups and zones -- require man-to-man principles in order to be successful. If coaches are merely allowed to pack players in the lane, these fundamentals are not being taught.

Years ago I administered a 4th - 6th grade boys basketball program. From the start of the 4th - 6th grade program, a man-to-man requirement was in effect. However, the year before I took over, several coaches were taking advantage of the man-to-man rules (all defenders had to be within 6' of their men).

We instituted a number of changes to the rules that were designed to teach man-to-man defense that included helpside principles -- which had never been addressed in the past. Our rules were not designed to be simple to enforce (as most man-to-man rules are). They were designed to force the coaches to teach the fundamentals of man-to-man defense which are utilized regardless whether a team is playing man-to-man defense or zone defense.

Our man-to-man rules were in effect for virtually the entire game for the 4th graders (except last minute and OT) and 5th graders (except for the last three minutes and OT). The rules were in effect for the first half for 6th grade teams.


Our rules required the following (sorry in advance for the length):

A. Player defending the player with the ball must attempt to be within a closely guarded distance whenever the ball handler was within 20 feet of the basket.
B. All other defenders of players on the ball side of the floor must be in a denial position (within 6' of the opponent) except
1. when the opponent is more than 20' from the basket,
2. when "helping" to stop the ballhandler from attacking the basket.
C. All other defenders of players on the non-ball side of the floor may assume a good "help side" position in the lane. These players must react to the movement of their opponent including:
1. obtaining a denial position should their opponent move to the ball side of the floor,
2. obtaining a denial position should the ball move to their opponent's side of the floor.
D. When defending "Stack" offenses, only the top player in the stack needed to be guarded (this was to prevent teams from utilizing stacks to create the 1v1 plays described in the original post) the other players could assume a good helpside position.
E. Trapping is prohibited except in the following situations:
1. two offensive players are within 3' of the ball.
2. in the lane when the ballhandler is driving to the basket when a defender is helping to stop a drive.
3. during transition during a fastbreak when the defense is not able to be organized.
Such situations are not to be penalized.

While the rules seemed somewhat complicated on paper, the enforcement was actually rather simple. We wanted to force each player to learn the fundamentals of man-to-man defense. As the coaches began to learn how the rules were being enforced, they began to implement offenses requiring team play and team movement.

We were very happy with the results over the eight years I administered this program.