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-   -   Good T/Or Time Out? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50508-good-t-time-out.html)

Rich Tue Dec 23, 2008 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561109)
Of course, I'm aware of both of those points.

Also, I should note that there have been quite a few good comments in this thread (some of which were deleted) as frequently happens when we get a little disagreement and spirited debate going. The main thing is that there has been a failure by officials to deal with the coaches. One of the main causes has been the lack of support from the ADs and schools. In places where assignments depend upon such people the don't bite the hand that feeds you phrase comes into play, and, unfortunately, not for the better of the game.

Good point.

If I had one assignor who assigned all the games and he said, "F--- it, whack em," I'd whack 'em by the boatload. But it's a little more complicated than that for most of us and games are directly and indirectly controlled by the schools and conferences.

bob jenkins Tue Dec 23, 2008 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 561107)
Maybe, but the coach had already been warned/reminded previously. I'm not saying this should automatically be a T because of it, but warnings aren't really having the desired effect.

Some have the philosophy of the "three Ws -- Wave, Warn, Whack." I'd view the earlier admonition as more of the "wave" function -- a reminder to stay in the box, not a "warning."

(Note that the philosophy doesn't say that all steps must be followed. Certainly a coach can act such that the first or first two steps are skipped. Also, a reminder in the first Q, followed by good behavior for 2 Qs can lead to another "wave" in the 4th Q.)

M&M Guy Tue Dec 23, 2008 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 561113)
Some have the philosophy of the "three Ws -- Wave, Warn, Whack." I'd view the earlier admonition as more of the "wave" function -- a reminder to stay in the box, not a "warning."

(Note that the philosophy doesn't say that all steps must be followed. Certainly a coach can act such that the first or first two steps are skipped. Also, a reminder in the first Q, followed by good behavior for 2 Qs can lead to another "wave" in the 4th Q.)

Exactly. Always listen to Bob.

(Right, Nevada? :D)

Nevadaref Tue Dec 23, 2008 02:33pm

I must have heard the 3Ws differently. When it came to the coaching box I thought that the NFHS was saying, "Watch, Whack, and Wave good-bye." :D

Back In The Saddle Tue Dec 23, 2008 06:10pm

I wanted to throw one more thing out for discussion earlier, but didn't have the text of it handy. I finally found it. It was buried in a rather obscure NFHS publication: "Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation."

It's interesting that the POE reminds us that the rule is "black and white". You and I know that in basketball, the only thing that is actually black and white are our uniforms. Especially when it comes to dealing with coaches.

Even NevadaRef, the who so vocally preached the Gospel Of The POE on this, concedes that he wouldn't T a HC "If he is only a step or so out of the box". In other words, it's not black and white.

As is so often the case, after all is said and done, we discover that the real question is "what common sense guidelines should we follow on enforcing this 'black and while' rule?"

BillyMac Tue Dec 23, 2008 07:22pm

"Rule Number One: Obey ALL rules!!"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 561023)
Barney Fife would T him up.

Barney: The last big buy I made was my mom's and dad's anniversary present.
Andy: What did you get them?
Barney: A septic tank.
Andy: For their anniversary?
Barney: Yeah, oh they're really hard to buy for. Besides it was something they could use. They were really thrilled. Two tons of concrete, all steel reinforced.
Andy: You're a fine son, Barn.
Barney: I try.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 09:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 561226)
Even NevadaRef, the who so vocally preached the Gospel Of The POE on this, concedes that he wouldn't T a HC "If he is only a step or so out of the box". In other words, it's not black and white.

I will say that if my local area would come out and make it known to all the coaches that the officials would issue Ts for one foot outside of the box, then I would certainly have no problem with that, in fact I would be http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...images/wee.gif and be giving those Ts. However, the majority of the people around me just aren't that hardcore. I know that I am at one end of the spectrum and constantly striving to get more people to move my direction.

mbyron Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561336)
However, the majority of the people around me just aren't that hardcore. I know that I am at one end of the spectrum and constantly striving to get more people to move my direction.

And that's good for the forum. Thanks, Nevada! :)

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 01:23pm

Seems that I'm needed at the D1 level
 
Observations since Bulletin No.1 was issued on 12/12/08.
1. Somebody PLEASE warn a coach for coaching out of the coaching box. I have attended 30+ games in person. I have observed numerous violations of this rule and I have yet to see anyone warn anybody! Find the right time to do it, follow the procedures outlined in an earlier memo, and take care of business.
---
John W. Adams


Back In The Saddle Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561431)
Observations since Bulletin No.1 was issued on 12/12/08.
1. Somebody PLEASE warn a coach for coaching out of the coaching box. I have attended 30+ games in person. I have observed numerous violations of this rule and I have yet to see anyone warn anybody! Find the right time to do it, follow the procedures outlined in an earlier memo, and take care of business.
---
John W. Adams


I'll call him and let him know I've got just the man for the job. Merry Christmas. :)


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