The "Flop" on an Upswing?

[Adam]

I've called this T exactly one time; in a 5th grade YMCA game. I warned the kid the first time; and warned his clueless coach.
Second time, kid flopped as the ball handler got to about 6 feet away; easy call.
Most of the time, you don't know if it's "anticipation" (perfectly legal) or "faking being fouled" (a technical.)

I have found at the high school level, coaches know why you passed on it if you no-call it. Invariably, I hear the coach yell, "Don't bail on that and you'll get the call."

If a coach asks, simply say "he fell too soon."

[Rich]

[QUOTE=Man In Blue;560635]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In my area, nobody calls a T for a flop. Not an option.

In my area no one calls traveling. So I don't either. If we choose to enforce some rules and not others we are BAD officials!

A T is the same as any other call. Enforce it that way.

Otherwise join the fans in the stands.

When it's you against the world, back the world.

[doubleringer]

Going back to the original post, I would certainly not mention this in either the pregame or to the coaches prior to the game. When you do that, the first time there is a play remotely similar to what you described, the coach is going to be on your butt telling you you should have made the call because it was talked about in the pregame.

Btw, I'm also the same way about mentioning anything about how we are going to call the game on a given night. I think taking about this causes more trouble than it diffuses.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Going back to the original post, I would certainly not mention this in either the pregame or to the coaches prior to the game. When you do that, the first time there is a play remotely similar to what you described, the coach is going to be on your butt telling you you should have made the call because it was talked about in the pregame.

Btw, I'm also the same way about mentioning anything about how we are going to call the game on a given night. I think taking about this causes more trouble than it diffuses.

I've had a couple of partners mention during the pregame that we'd be watching for carrying. Neither of them called a single carry, the only carry called in my games was in a different game with a partner who never mentioned it.

I hate telling the players things like this: "we're looking for palming/carrying/traveling/hand checking" for the very reason you note; you're setting yourself up.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

All this talk about getting you "in trouble." With whom, exactly?

Simple...you and your crew.

You give the "clean block signal". And your partner comes in with a foul.

Your partner gives the "get up signal" And you come in with a foul.

That's the "trouble" I speak of...

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I hate telling the players things like this: "we're looking for palming/carrying/traveling/hand checking" for the very reason you note; you're setting yourself up.

Exactly, last week I had a coach ask me in pre-game "how are you calling the hand-checks tonight"?

I said by the rules & consistently sir.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Exactly, last week I had a coach ask me in pre-game "how are you calling the hand-checks tonight"?

I said by the rules & consistently sir.

Hold out your hands and do the mechanic, and say "this way."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Simple...you and your crew.

You give the "clean block signal". And your partner comes in with a foul.

Your partner gives the "get up signal" And you come in with a foul.

That's the "trouble" I speak of...

I don't worry about these things, to be honest. I see clean block, partner sees a foul. Coach asks me, I say "He saw something I didn't."

That said, I don't use these signals. Seems like wasted energy to me. But I don't really worry about getting "in trouble."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've had a couple of partners mention during the pregame that we'd be watching for carrying. Neither of them called a single carry, the only carry called in my games was in a different game with a partner who never mentioned it.

I hate telling the players things like this: "we're looking for palming/carrying/traveling/hand checking" for the very reason you note; you're setting yourself up.

My pregame with the coaches:

"Hi Bill, good to see you again. Are your players properly and legally attired? Good luck."

(They get confused because, apparently, not every coach is named Bill.)

Wash, rinse, repeat.

My captain meeting is just about as short.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hold out your hands and do the mechanic, and say "this way."

The baseball version is:

"What's your strike zone?"

"If I grunt and stick my arm out, it's a strike."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My pregame with the coaches:

"Hi Bill, good to see you again. Are your players properly and legally attired? Good luck."

(They get confused because, apparently, not every coach is named Bill.)

Wash, rinse, repeat.

My captain meeting is just about as short.

I mention the box (CHSAA wants us to) and timeouts.
"Please make sure you're in your coaching box, and please let us know which timeout you want."

To the players, "If you see a teammate start to lose his head, take care of it for me so I don't have to."

I don't tell them about the lines we're playing, or the hand checks I'm looking for, or the carrying. It's not baseball, they don't need a ground rules briefing.

[OHBBREF]

the best thing is to no call here unless the player who flopped has any contact with the shooter before the player returns to the floor or the act of shooting has ended - if there is contact call the block and move on.

The get up and play on signal is useful once you have determined there is no whistle on the play.

Next oportunity let that specific player know if they take the contact you will give them the call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

the best thing is to no call here unless the player who flopped has any contact with the shooter before the player returns to the floor or the act of shooting has ended - if there is contact call the block and move on.

I agree to a point. A player is allowed to move backwards to avoid contact, so if the contact is such that the 'flop' only delayed the inevitable; go ahead and call the PC.

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Next oportunity let that specific player know if they take the contact you will give them the call.

I disagree; you're boxing yourself into a corner for future plays that game. If he asks, just tell him what he did wrong; don't make any promises or commitments for future plays.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree to a point. A player is allowed to move backwards to avoid contact, so if the contact is such that the 'flop' only delayed the inevitable; go ahead and call the PC.

I am refering to the player flopping to the floor before any contact - your point is well taken.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree; you're boxing yourself into a corner for future plays that game. If he asks, just tell him what he did wrong; don't make any promises or commitments for future plays.

noted.

[Man In Blue]

[QUOTE=RichMSN;560643]

Originally Posted by Man In Blue

When it's you against the world, back the world.

I think the flop is a place the rules committee should look at the severity of the penalty. Just like they did making it a violation to leave the playing court. They HAD to make the change because officials didn't have the testicular fortitude to enforce the penalty.

Too bad that we as officials decide to enforce our rules rather than the Fed rule book.