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-   -   The "Flop" on an Upswing? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50489-flop-upswing.html)

Freddy Sun Dec 21, 2008 09:31pm

The "Flop" on an Upswing?
 
Seems to me that more and more coaches in our area are teaching their defenders to set themselves up for taking the charge in the lane. As lead especially, it's easy to see it coming as I observe the defender, anticipating the crash, set him/herself up legally to bear the brunt of the impact in the lane. Happens so often that it seems to be in slow motion as the scenerio sets itself up.
With that, I'm also seeing an upswing in the number of times per game the defender does the "flop," falling to the floor without actually receiving any contact from the opponent on the drive. I had two boys' sub-level games last Thursday during which it happened no less than four times in the frosh game and three times in the jv game.
As I see it, and as I consider the rules, good sense, and proper game management, there are a variety of possibilities:
A. Do a "no call", realizing that the faker put himself at a disadvantage by putting himself on the floor while the shooter proceeded to the basket unimpeded, and just let the game proceed (and just bear the verbal wrath of the fans on both ends who might not understand "advantage/disadvantage")
B. Halt the illegal practice early by calling an unsporting technical foul for "faking being fouled" (10-3-6-f)
C. Call a block, and when the faker protests, tell him, "I could have either given you a foul for a block or a technical for faking being fouled, which do you want me to call next time?"
D. Make it a POI in the pre-game captains' conference
E. Mention it to both coaches prior to the game
F. After the first "flop", verbally warn both teams, when practical, not to do that again
G. Warn the coaches somehow during the course of the game that "faking being fouled" merits a penalty, and call a T the next one you see one
H. Other???
Do you sense an upswing in "the flop"?
If so, what, if anything, is your good-sense reaction to it?

Skarecrow Sun Dec 21, 2008 09:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 560482)
Seems to me that more and more coaches in our area are teaching their defenders to set themselves up for taking the charge in the lane. As lead especially, it's easy to see it coming as I observe the defender, anticipating the crash, set him/herself up legally to bear the brunt of the impact in the lane. Happens so often that it seems to be in slow motion as the scenerio sets itself up.
With that, I'm also seeing an upswing in the number of times per game the defender does the "flop," falling to the floor without actually receiving any contact from the opponent on the drive. I had two boys' sub-level games last Thursday during which it happened no less than four times in the frosh game and three times in the jv game.
As I see it, and as I consider the rules, good sense, and proper game management, there are a variety of possibilities:
A. Do a "no call", realizing that the faker put himself at a disadvantage by putting himself on the floor while the shooter proceeded to the basket unimpeded, and just let the game proceed (and just bear the verbal wrath of the fans on both ends who might not understand "advantage/disadvantage")
B. Halt the illegal practice early by calling an unsporting technical foul for "faking being fouled" (10-3-6-f)
C. Call a block, and when the faker protests, tell him, "I could have either given you a foul for a block or a technical for faking being fouled, which do you want me to call next time?"
D. Make it a POI in the pre-game captains' conference
E. Mention it to both coaches prior to the game
F. After the first "flop", verbally warn both teams, when practical, not to do that again
G. Warn the coaches somehow during the course of the game that "faking being fouled" merits a penalty, and call a T the next one you see one
H. Other???
Do you sense an upswing in "the flop"?
If so, what, if anything, is your good-sense reaction to it?

I wouldn't mention it to anybody....if he flops, he may not be faking, just anticipating...and it is pretty hard to decipher his mind.....just let him hit the floor and go on with the game....he looks pretty sheepish, laying down like that...

If you have contact, then call the charge or block, depending on the situation....IMO

summdawg76 Sun Dec 21, 2008 09:40pm

That is always a touchy one.

The player did put himself at a disadvantage, but it would also be a disadvantage to another player that turned his ankle landing on him.

chartrusepengui Mon Dec 22, 2008 09:24am

First time - no call and let him know he isn't getting an academy award and faking being fouled is a technical foul. Thereafter - hit the whistle.

grunewar Mon Dec 22, 2008 09:43am

From my little corner of the world, I don't think it's on the upswing and I don't see coaches "teaching it." I like "refereeing the defense" and awarding the call if it is earned and deserved.

I had a 12 yr old REC player this weekend who thought he was Shane Battier. He tried jumping in front of every offensive player he could to draw the charge. Unfortunately, it never seemed to be in my area and my partner always called the block.....coach said "knock it off, they're not going to call it." Tough way to earn a living getting run over all the time......

mbyron Mon Dec 22, 2008 09:48am

In my area, nobody calls a T for a flop. Not an option.

A veteran gave me a great piece of advice when I pass on a foul in this situation. He told me, after the play's over and the defender's on the floor looking pitiful, look right at him and wave for him to get up (open palm facing up, arm moving low to high).

This gesture lets everyone know that you saw the play, chose not to call a foul, and so you didn't "miss" a call. In my experience, this works pretty well, especially in lower level games where coaches assume that any time a player ends up on the floor without a whistle, an official missed the call.

JugglingReferee Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:01am

I've seen about 4-5 flops already this year. I should have called one of them, too. Oh well.

Larks Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:38am

A friend of mine and I have both experienced what we both believe are flops this season on plays where the player holding the ball to one side brings it across their body to the other. The defender acts like he's blown up, essentially looking like he is taking one to the chops. When I got the film, the velocity of the ball swing didnt match up with the action of the player allegedly getting hit but you really couldnt tell conclusively. In live action we both swore this was a whiff / flop.

I sure hope this isnt being taught because if you are stacked on this play, you are either going to be duped into a player control or you are going to see the spacing but wont be supported by the film.

eyezen Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:57am

Time to break out the red cards...
 
Did you say flops?

eyezen Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:07am

Serious reply...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 560567)
In my area, nobody calls a T for a flop. Not an option.

A veteran gave me a great piece of advice when I pass on a foul in this situation. He told me, after the play's over and the defender's on the floor looking pitiful, look right at him and wave for him to get up (open palm facing up, arm moving low to high).

This gesture lets everyone know that you saw the play, chose not to call a foul, and so you didn't "miss" a call. In my experience, this works pretty well, especially in lower level games where coaches assume that any time a player ends up on the floor without a whistle, an official missed the call.

This may work in your area, but my upbringing completely frowns on this ideal. Same with the "blocked shot" signal. We don't need gestures to explain our calls or non calls. At some point these gestures will get you in trouble.

Bad Zebra Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyezen (Post 560600)

Great link. Perfect examples of why I hate that @#$%ing game.

JugglingReferee Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyezen (Post 560600)

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post559967 :eek:

Rich Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyezen (Post 560603)
This may work in your area, but my upbringing completely frowns on this ideal. Same with the "blocked shot" signal. We don't need gestures to explain our calls or non calls. At some point these gestures will get you in trouble.

All this talk about getting you "in trouble." With whom, exactly?

Scrapper1 Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 560482)
A. Do a "no call", realizing that the faker put himself at a disadvantage by putting himself on the floor
C. Call a block, and when the faker protests, tell him, "I could have either given you a foul for a block or a technical for faking being fouled, which do you want me to call next time?"

I think these are your two best options. If the defender goes to the floor and the shooter is unaffected, then a no-call is appropriate. If the defender goes to the floor and the shooter's landing is affected, block.

Quote:

Do you sense an upswing in "the flop"?
I posted about this earlier this season, but I actually saw a college team practice flopping during their pre-game warm-up routine. Unbelievable. http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post553763

Man In Blue Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:25pm

[QUOTE=mbyron;560567]In my area, nobody calls a T for a flop. Not an option.

In my area no one calls traveling. So I don't either. If we choose to enforce some rules and not others we are BAD officials!

A T is the same as any other call. Enforce it that way.

Otherwise join the fans in the stands.


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