Question about traveling...

[greatgamer]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Forget the two step thingy. Read what golfdesigner wrote. That sums it up.

golfdesigner's addresses the rule that coincides before you dribble the ball.

If the ball hasn't been dribbled, you can only take one step. I know that.

I'm talking about when you're attacking the basket.

[golfdesigner]

Greatgamer, read the section 4-44 Article 2, it deals with catching the ball while moving or dribbling..
Attacking the basket doesn't give one liberty to run with the ball.

[greatgamer]

Originally Posted by golfdesigner

Greatgamer, read the section 4-44 Article 2, it deals with catching the ball while moving or dribbling..

Okay, so that's two steps. First is the pivot. I already knew that.

So, as I was saying, is skipping allowed, as long as it conforms to that rule?

For example, the player stops dribbling with his right foot, skips and lands on his right foot (pivot foot), followed by the left foot and lays it in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by greatgamer

Okay, so that's two steps. First is the pivot. I already knew that.

So, as I was saying, is skipping allowed, as long as it conforms to that rule?

For example, the player stops dribbling with his right foot, skips and lands on his right foot (pivot foot), followed by the left foot and lays it in.

Skipping is not allowed. A player may lift the pivot foot, but may not put it back down. Your example above has a player bringing his pivot foot back down. If he's skipping on his non-pivot foot, it's still illegal as it constitutes a jump, which is a travel upon landing.

Furthermore, the rule that allows the commonly perceived two steps works when a player picks up the dribble in the air, just after leaving the floor. Next foot down is pivot, and the foot after that can come down one time before jumping for the shot.

FWIW, I believe the rule is the same in the NBA, but I'm not sure.

[greatgamer]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Skipping is not allowed. A player may lift the pivot foot, but may not put it back down. Your example above has a player bringing his pivot foot back down. If he's skipping on his non-pivot foot, it's still illegal as it constitutes a jump, which is a travel upon landing.

Furthermore, the rule that allows the commonly perceived two steps works when a player picks up the dribble in the air, just after leaving the floor. Next foot down is pivot, and the foot after that can come down one time before jumping for the shot.

FWIW, I believe the rule is the same in the NBA, but I'm not sure.

This is maddening trying to describe this on the forums. I wish there was a player who did this, on video.

Correction: He is not moving his pivot foot.

I repeat, he is not moving his pivot foot.

Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by greatgamer

This is maddening trying to describe this on the forums. I wish there was a player who did this, on video.

Correction: He is not moving his pivot foot.

I repeat, he is not moving his pivot foot.

Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.

That is where you're wrong...the foot on the floor when the ball is caught, in all but one case (not this case), is, by definition, the pivot foot.

In fact, this case is a travel the moment his right foot comes back down...don't even have to wait for the left foot to touch.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by greatgamer

This is maddening trying to describe this on the forums. I wish there was a player who did this, on video.

Correction: He is not moving his pivot foot.

I repeat, he is not moving his pivot foot.

Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.

Here's the deal. If he ended his last dribble with either foot on the floor; THAT FOOT IS HIS PIVOT FOOT. If he jumps off this foot, it's a travel when he lands. The only way he can jump off this foot and land with the ball legally is if he lands on both feet at the same time.

If he ended his dribble with both feet in the air, the first foot down is the pivot foot, unless he jumps off of it. If he jumps off it, he must land with both feet simultaneously. If he does as you suggest, it's a travel.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by greatgamer

Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.

You can not call it until you know what it is,
if it is a pivot foot, it is his pivot foot and he can not pick it up and put it back down on the floor with out releasing the ball on a pass or a try for goal?

See how simple that is.

[just another ref]

I'm a bit vague about exactly what is meant by "skipped." If greatgamer could describe the play again and avoid that term, but just tell us, in order, when each foot left and returned to the floor, and when the ball was caught, I'm sure we could straighten this out.

Also, the crucial question is:

Originally Posted by greatgamer

He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT.....

With his right foot WHERE?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by greatgamer

Okay, so that's two steps. First is the pivot. I already knew that.

Someone else posted something very similar to this thread within the past week or so. Search for it.

Then, get rid of the "2 steps" (or 1 step or 1.5 steps) from your vocabulary -- whether you're a fan, a player, a coach or an official. Think of it in terms of "moving the pivot foot in excess of prescribed limits."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"moving the pivot foot in excess of prescribed limits."

Always listen to bob.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Someone else posted something very similar to this thread within the past week or so. Search for it.

Then, get rid of the "2 steps" (or 1 step or 1.5 steps) from your vocabulary -- whether you're a fan, a player, a coach or an official. Think of it in terms of "moving the pivot foot in excess of prescribed limits."

Or, if you insist in still thinking of it in the number of steps, the first one occurs when the ball is caught if either foot is on the ground (which, if you go that way, will lead you to the actual definition of traveling and the pivot foot).