Question about Stat on Foul - Block

[CoachAZ]

Please excuse any bad nominclature on my part. I am a coach - stat man, not an official.

A1 has the ball and is driving for a layup. B1 (The defender) cleanly blocks the shot. About 2/10 of a second later (we have video), B1 falls into A1 and official correctly calls foul. The sign was a "PUSH". So should the block count as a block, or did the foul negate the block? Not that it matters score wise, but I want to be accurate in scoring the stats. My thinking is if the block attempt caused the foul, it is negated, but in this case, the contact was below and clearly after the block.

Thanks

[JRutledge]

Most of us would not know unless we had some background in stats. There are no rules that tell us what constitutes a block, assist or steal. As an official (alone) we are no more qualified to know this than you would.

I would assume that if a foul is called you would not get credit for a block. But that is a big assumption on my part. And you know what they say about people when they assume.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And you know what they say about people when they assume.

They officiate in Nevada?

[JRutledge]

That is cold.

Peace

[CoachAZ]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most of us would not know unless we had some background in stats. There are no rules that tell us what constitutes a block, assist or steal. As an official (alone) we are no more qualified to know this than you would.

I would assume that if a foul is called you would not get credit for a block. But that is a big assumption on my part. And you know what they say about people when they assume.

Peace

That was my initial thinking too, UNTIL I considered the case of two defenders where one cleanly gets a block and the other fouls well after the block on the follow through. In that case, we would award a block for one and a foul for the other.

Maybe what I am also saying is that if the call was during the block, I would agree, but since the foul occurred after the shot, that is why I am asking. I guess it doesn't matter too much as long as I consistantly apply the same rule the rest of the season.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CoachAZ

That was my initial thinking too, UNTIL I considered the case of two defenders where one cleanly gets a block and the other fouls well after the block on the follow through. In that case, we would award a block for one and a foul for the other.

Maybe what I am also saying is that if the call was during the block, I would agree, but since the foul occurred after the shot, that is why I am asking. I guess it doesn't matter too much as long as I consistantly apply the same rule the rest of the season.

Personally, if it was clearly after the block, I'd give them the block. But, I'm an official. There are a few stat folks around here that would know more than I do on this, though. Perhaps Statman will answer.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CoachAZ

Maybe what I am also saying is that if the call was during the block, I would agree, but since the foul occurred after the shot, that is why I am asking. I guess it doesn't matter too much as long as I consistantly apply the same rule the rest of the season.

I think that is a good question. As officials we have no direct insight under the rules to know what the right thing to do is. Now in baseball, there are rules of stat keeping in the rulebook. Fortunately or unfortunately, there are no direct rules on stat keeping in basketball.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

If the officials awarded two free throws, then it does not count as a FGA or blocked shot, because the player was fouled in the act of shooting.

If the officials awarded possession of the ball out of bounds, then the foul occurred separately from the try, so it's a blocked shot.

[jdmara]

The block would not be recorded if the foul occurred on the shooter while still in the act. At least that was the rule of thumb we always used. I would make the assumption that the lead stat guy for the university knew what he was talking about since he did it for several decades. But don't quote me on it

-Josh

Scapper beat me too it

[jevaque]

i had a very similar situation last week. A1 went up for a shot and B2 blocked his shot, but before A1 landed safely back on the floor (ending his attempt) B2 fell into A1 causing a foul. So, Im not certain but that one shot attempt was a foul on B2 so there is no block since his shot attempt was never completed.