FWIW, I'm with Nevada on this one. Take off what you know even if it's not the entire amount.

You need to read the above again. They had definite info relative to the time involved. The clock did not start properly. That is definite info. If you need confirmation, just email it to Mary Struckoff. The rule does not say that you need to know exactly how much time elapsed.

Okay, you know the clock should have started. How much time should have come off? At least a full second? Do you even know that for sure?

No.

Are you that inept that you can't replay the play in your head and have a very good estimate of the time elapsed?
This exact play was brought to the National Fed. and the interp. was to take off the time based on your best estimate. Mary Struckoff was adamant that the language in the rule specifically states that you only need definite knowledge that there was an errror. You may correct the clock if you know it was not started properly.
Question: 0.7 left on the clock. Player catches inbounds pass takes 3 dribbles and shoots and scores. Clock never starts until the shot is in the air.
Are you going to count it? Redo it? Or nullify the shot and walk off the floor?

Where is this published?

{Jepordy theme song plays}

Would the rules support at least one second being taken off?

ART.1...The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to start or stop the clock properly only when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved.

How is that defined?

ART.2...If the referee determines that the clock was not started or stopped properly, or if the clock did not run, an official's count or other official information can be used to make a correction.

Anybody know what "other official information" means??

[QUOTE=Ch1town;558323]ART.1...The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to start or stop the clock properly only when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved.
[QUOTE]
Gosh, this seems to contradict socal's version of Mary Struckoff's comments. Of course, maybe I'm just too inept to see it.

A.R. 131. With 10 seconds remaining on the game clock in the first half,
A1 makes a throw-in to A2 (game clock not started—official
timer’s mistake). A2 dribbles into the front court and misses
the try. B1 recovers the rebound and dribbles the full length of
the playing court. As the player passes the bench, the coach of
Team A notices that the game clock has not started and calls
the mistake to the attention of the official timer, who starts the
game clock. With one second left on the game clock in the half,
A2 fouls B1. The bonus is in effect. Time expires before the official
timer can stop the game clock.
RULING: The referee cannot correct this official timer’s mistake unless
he or she knows relatively how much time had elapsed while the
game clock was stopped. The referee shall conduct a re-enactment of
the sequential occurrence of the play to determine that relative time.
To assist the referee, information may be attained from the official
timer who should have informed the official of the mistake. When
the referee determines that there is time remaining, the referee shall
put the determined time on the game clock. A2 shall be assessed with
a personal foul and play shall be resumed at the point where the ball
was located when play was stopped to correct the timer’s mistake.
In this case, B1 shall be awarded the entitled free throw(s) for A2’s
personal foul and play shall be resumed from that point with the corrected
time on the game clock. A correction is only permitted when
it falls within the prescribed time frame limit. When it is determined
that there is no time left on the game clock, the game is over and the
personal foul is not assessed unless it is flagrant or intentional.

A.R. 136. With 4 seconds remaining on the game clock, A1 makes a
throw-in to A2. The game clock does not start when the throwin
is touched by A2. The ball is passed twice, a shot is taken
and the rebound is deflected out of bounds by B1. Prior to
placing the ball at the disposal of A1 for a throw-in, the official
recognizes that there are 4 seconds on the game clock indicating
that the game clock was not properly started on the previous
throw-in.
RULING: When an obvious timing mistake has occurred because
of failure to start or stop the game clock properly, the mistake shall
be corrected only when the referee has definite information relative
to the time involved. The officials have definite information that the
game clock did not start. The officials shall confer with each other and/or check with
the official timer to determine the correct time, if any time remains,
to be placed on the game clock. By rule, the decision must be made
relative to the time involved. The officials are not permitted to leave 4
seconds on the game clock and repeat the initial the throw-in by A1.
(Rule 5-11.1)

So this question was brought to the NFHS, and Mary Struckoff was so adamant that the FED issued an NCAA Approved Ruling? :confused:

I cited cases from the NCAA Case book to support the rule. NFHS and NCAA - the wording of the rule is the same.
I don't have a Fed case book handy to know if this play is cited.

The rulebook says that you can determine the time by either a count or other information. If the ball was put in play, the clock was supposed to start. If the ball handler took a couple of dribbles, more time came off the clock. In this situation the foul was called and 8:00 was still on the clock. I have definite knowledge the clock should have run. I do not need to actually see the clock run or not run to certain of that fact. And unless someone can show me where it says, "You must watch the clock or you do not have definite knowledge" then I am going to say I have definite knowledge time should have run off the clock or did not start properly. I did not say take 5 seconds or 10 seconds. That would be a stretch. But anyone officiating that tends to watch the clock knows that a second should come off the clock when the ball is touched after a throw in. And if there was a dribble or two, I am certain at least a second has gone off the clock and I could not call a foul with just 8:00 on the clock just because I did not physically see the clock run.

Now at the end of the day do what you feel is best. I just feel no one will say a word and no one can dispute (but on the internet) that a second should not have run off if not more time in this example. I do not care what others say, this is not a committee decision and I also do not feel the intent of the rule was to require that official only had to "see" the clock run or not. That is why they wrote the rule the way they did and gave us other markers to make these decisions. I am sure not everyone is going to agree what they meant by definite. The dictionary definition fits what I would do clearly.

Peace

I do not know about you, but if the ball was touched after a throw-in and a player dribbled a couple of times, at least a second ran off the clock.

Peace