The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 12:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 580
Junior disagreeing with veteran

R1, MUCH junior to R2, notices quarter about to start with teams headed the wrong way. R1, the lead, whistles before throw-in starts, confers with R2 near division line. R2 assures direction is correct ... where and how does the conversation stop if R2 isn't giving ground, without causing partner rift or some other folly, etc.?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 12:47pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Seriously? This is basic!

"Hey, partner. 2nd quarter, white should still be going away from their bench, right?"

How does a "veteran" of more than 2 games not acknowledge this once he's told?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 12:53pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
R1, MUCH junior to R2, notices quarter about to start with teams headed the wrong way. R1, the lead, whistles before throw-in starts, confers with R2 near division line. R2 assures direction is correct ... where and how does the conversation stop if R2 isn't giving ground, without causing partner rift or some other folly, etc.?
How have you determined that the teams are going the wrong way? The R should be at the division line with the ball and the U1 should be somewhere near the baseline in the frontcourt.

And Which quarter are we talking about?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 01:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 580
2Q. R indeed w/ball near division line, U under the hoop. R obviously wrong -- based on benches' location.

The question, partially to answer you Snaq, actually comes down to how would one handle what amounts to an unbending or 'rogue' ref in this or other similar scenario? It only adds an extra twist that partners have different experience levels. (Hey, there have been plenty of other wacky hypotheticals inquired about here before ...)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 01:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
R1, MUCH junior to R2, notices quarter about to start with teams headed the wrong way. R1, the lead, whistles before throw-in starts, confers with R2 near division line. R2 assures direction is correct ... where and how does the conversation stop if R2 isn't giving ground, without causing partner rift or some other folly, etc.?
I guess I shouldn't even ask how the rest of the game went.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 01:36pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
2Q. R indeed w/ball near division line, U under the hoop. R obviously wrong -- based on benches' location.

The question, partially to answer you Snaq, actually comes down to how would one handle what amounts to an unbending or 'rogue' ref in this or other similar scenario? It only adds an extra twist that partners have different experience levels. (Hey, there have been plenty of other wacky hypotheticals inquired about here before ...)
I think it depends on how it might affect the game. There comes a point where you need to just move on; and if he wants to point the kids in the wrong direction and the coaches don't argue about it; probably not a hill worth dying on.

You're right about the wacky hypotheticals; but they usually involved weird coach or player activity. Did he just think the players were setting up a trick play?

Is this a hypothetical or a real situation? Wow. Just, wow.

When you say "much junior," are you referring to age or officiating experience?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 01:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio, cincinnati
Posts: 813
Set it up where you can control it

After you have expressed your opinion and you partner insists that they are going the correct way, you are relieved of responsibility. Let him inbound the ball and as soon as you are sure that this is not a trick play blow it dead and switch them the correct way!
Maybe it will dwan on him then.
It should at least dawn on the coahces at that point and he may have to admit his confusion.

But again you are relieved of responsibility at this point having made two efforts to straighten out the situation.

I am remarking about responsibility thinking that this is high school or above.
__________________
New and improved: if it's new it's not improved; if it's improved it's not new.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 01:49pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
2Q. R indeed w/ball near division line, U under the hoop. R obviously wrong -- based on benches' location.

The question, partially to answer you Snaq, actually comes down to how would one handle what amounts to an unbending or 'rogue' ref in this or other similar scenario? It only adds an extra twist that partners have different experience levels. (Hey, there have been plenty of other wacky hypotheticals inquired about here before ...)
I'm still lost...you say the start of a quarter. If it's the 2nd you'd be going the same direction you went in the 1st quarter--how could either official forget? Same principle applies if it's the 4th quarter.

If it's the 3rd quarter quarter you're going the direction of the benches and opposite the direction you went in the first half.

So, the R pointed the wrong direction? He forgot which direction the teams went in the 1st quarter?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 02:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
R1, MUCH junior to R2, notices quarter about to start with teams headed the wrong way. R1, the lead, whistles before throw-in starts, confers with R2 near division line. R2 assures direction is correct ... where and how does the conversation stop if R2 isn't giving ground, without causing partner rift or some other folly, etc.?
It will sink in once the ball is inbounded as coaches, fans, and table will be screaming "wrong way" I'd let him explain it over the P.A. system.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 02:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by newera21 View Post
I guess I shouldn't even ask how the rest of the game went.

LOL Dude/dudette that tickled me .....
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 02:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF View Post
After you have expressed your opinion and you partner insists that they are going the correct way, you are relieved of responsibility. Let him inbound the ball and as soon as you are sure that this is not a trick play blow it dead and switch them the correct way!
Maybe it will dwan on him then.
It should at least dawn on the coahces at that point and he may have to admit his confusion.
Unfortunately, this mistake makes both officials look bad. Should the new Lead stand by the "correct" baseline, see the teams go the other way, then whistle? Or silently disagree(after partner discussion) and go to the incorrect baseline, which implies agreement to all attending?
Personally, I would explain his mistake to him, loudly tell both teams while pointing "White, this way" then go to the correct baseline...
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 05:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Velley Forge, PA
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
2Q. R indeed w/ball near division line, U under the hoop. R obviously wrong -- based on benches' location.

The question, partially to answer you Snaq, actually comes down to how would one handle what amounts to an unbending or 'rogue' ref in this or other similar scenario? It only adds an extra twist that partners have different experience levels. (Hey, there have been plenty of other wacky hypotheticals inquired about here before ...)
In this situation, let it go. It doesn't really affect the game, and it will get corrected by someone to your partner's embarassment. Without saying anything, he'll have the "told you so" in his head, and will most likely be more than open to listening to you in the future.

On important things, the bottom line is that you simply cannot have a major disagreement on a floor, because it makes the crew look terrible. Nothing is worse than prolonged conversations. Despite that fact that we have a duty as a crew to get it right at all times, there are people who are stubborn know-it-alls. When they have the authority as a crew chief, and get something wrong, there are 2 options you have: 1) Be vociferous at the time, causing a semi-scene, making the crew look worse, and the crew screws up anyway. You'll quickly make an enemy and you'll lose anyway because the crew got something wrong. 2) Make your opinion known once, and then stay out of it unless asked. In this case, if no bad stuff happens, you don't come off as the insubordinate rookie, but if bad stuff does happen, you won't even have to bring it up, because your crewmates will know you were right. That will give you huge credibility.

Always be humble when your input is correct and not heeded. Arrogant and stubborn officials know when they get things wrong, and often times they look to place blame. By not rubbing their face in it at all--even in private later on with your buddies--you conduct yourself with high integrity and become known for being smart and a good teammate. It gives those guys nothnig to grasp at with you. When I am the R and someone makes a huge mistake, I'll usually not even bring it up in a post-game. The lessons from those are already learned on the spot, and if they are not, that official will have a very short shelf-life anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 05:53pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Personally, I think the Oraclator states this well. Pick your battles, this ain't one.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 07:58pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,774
First And Goal ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I'm still lost, you say the start of a quarter. If it's the 2nd you'd be going the same direction you went in the 1st quarter, how could either official forget? Same principle applies if it's the 4th quarter.
Not if it's football. Do football officials still get to shoot starter's pistols like in the olden days?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 12, 2008, 08:40pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Not if it's football. Do football officials still get to shoot starter's pistols like in the olden days?
Check again.
Those were ender's pistols.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions for Veteran officials Sirrefalot Basketball 15 Thu Feb 23, 2006 08:46am
Veteran partner was just plain bad!! rviotto13 Basketball 8 Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:57pm
disagreeing on the line cowbyfan1 Football 5 Wed Sep 15, 2004 02:41am
Need some advice from a veteran! Buckeye12 Baseball 16 Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:02am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1