What "Attributes"?

[Freddy]

This has always been puzzling, and I'd appreciate the understanding you can instill in me regarding 4-19-9: "A false double foul is a situation in which . . . at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent."

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

[vbzebra]

Originally Posted by Freddy

This has always been puzzling, and I'd appreciate the understanding you can instill in me regarding 4-19-9: "A false double foul is a situation in which . . . at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent."

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

I've always been told to have good "game management" and "preventative officiating" to make sure I don't get in the situation of having that lovely "false double foul".

[Mark Padgett]

Substitute "criteria" or "requirements" for "attributes" and it might help.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Freddy

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

The double foul attributes are that they are both "personal" fouls or both "technical" fouls.

In a false double foul, one is a personal and the other is a technical. The fouls still occur at approximately the same time but the first foul causes the ball to become dead and the clock to stop. The second foul is a dead ball foul and possibly resulting in a technical. Thus one personal and one technical.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Freddy

This has always been puzzling, and I'd appreciate the understanding you can instill in me regarding 4-19-9: "A false double foul is a situation in which . . . at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent."

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

A double foul must have all of the following attributes:

1) Both personal or both technical
2) By opponents against each other
3) Approximately at the same time

If any of those is missing, it's a false double foul.

The most common usual example is the time delay.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

The double foul attributes are that they are both "personal" fouls or both "technical" fouls.

In a false double foul, one is a personal and the other is a technical. The fouls still occur at approximately the same time but the first foul causes the ball to become dead and the clock to stop. The second foul is a dead ball foul and possibly resulting in a technical. Thus one personal and one technical.

As Bob pointed out there are more attributes to a false double than just the type of foul. Both fouls can be personal or technical and still be a false double. A1 is an airborne shooter and is fouled by B1. Before returning to the floor A1 fouls B2. This is a false double foul.

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by rwest

As Bob pointed out there are more attributes to a false double than just the type of foul. Both fouls can be personal or technical and still be a false double. A1 is an airborne shooter and is fouled by B1. Before returning to the floor A1 fouls B2. This is a false double foul.

would the infamous "blarge" be a false double foul?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jburt

would the infamous "blarge" be a false double foul?

The blarge is an actual double foul.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The blarge is an actual double foul.

You are correct that it is a double foul, but it is only because the officials didn't follow proper mechanics and this is the only way the Fed has for cleaning it up. If the two officials get together and can't agree on what the correct call is, we are told to go with a double foul. Had one of the officials yielded to the other, there would be no need for a double foul because there would be no blarge.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by rwest

You are correct that it is a double foul, but it is only because the officials didn't follow proper mechanics and this is the only way the Fed has for cleaning it up. If the two officials get together and can't agree on what the correct call is, we are told to go with a double foul. Had one of the officials yielded to the other, there would be no need for a double foul because there would be no blarge.

Right. If both officials signal, and we have a blarge, it's a double foul. If one yields and doesn't signal, then it's not a double foul because we have only one foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

You are correct that it is a double foul, but it is only because the officials didn't follow proper mechanics and this is the only way the Fed has for cleaning it up. If the two officials get together and can't agree on what the correct call is, we are told to go with a double foul. Had one of the officials yielded to the other, there would be no need for a double foul because there would be no blarge.

By the time they would "get together" it's generally too late, unless they've both "yielded". But if one yields right away, the other has the call. No getting together necessary. If neither yields and both go straight to the prelim, you have your blarge now. Too late, by rule, to yield.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

I've always been told to have good "game management" and "preventative officiating" to make sure I don't get in the situation of having that lovely "false double foul".

I've had too many false doubles to agree with this.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've had too many false doubles to agree with this.

IMO people have this situ more than they know. The false double foul title scarespeople and they think somehow it should be more difficult to administer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

IMO people have this situ more than they know. The false double foul title scarespeople and they think somehow it should be more difficult to administer.

Agreed, but it usually amounts to B1 fouling A1 and A1 pushing back in retaliation after the whistle. Or A1 popping off afterwards with magic words.

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

IMO people have this situ more than they know. The false double foul title scarespeople and they think somehow it should be more difficult to administer.

how is it administered? shots (if warranted) in order of foul occurrences? than POI?