What "Attributes"?

[Freddy]

This has always been puzzling, and I'd appreciate the understanding you can instill in me regarding 4-19-9: "A false double foul is a situation in which . . . at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent."

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

[vbzebra]

Originally Posted by Freddy

This has always been puzzling, and I'd appreciate the understanding you can instill in me regarding 4-19-9: "A false double foul is a situation in which . . . at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent."

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

I've always been told to have good "game management" and "preventative officiating" to make sure I don't get in the situation of having that lovely "false double foul".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

I've always been told to have good "game management" and "preventative officiating" to make sure I don't get in the situation of having that lovely "false double foul".

I've had too many false doubles to agree with this.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've had too many false doubles to agree with this.

IMO people have this situ more than they know. The false double foul title scarespeople and they think somehow it should be more difficult to administer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

IMO people have this situ more than they know. The false double foul title scarespeople and they think somehow it should be more difficult to administer.

Agreed, but it usually amounts to B1 fouling A1 and A1 pushing back in retaliation after the whistle. Or A1 popping off afterwards with magic words.

[AKOFL]

Another one. B1 hold A1. A1 is in the bonus and hits both free throws. while B1 is making the throw-in, A1 pushes B2 jockying for position.

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

IMO people have this situ more than they know. The false double foul title scarespeople and they think somehow it should be more difficult to administer.

how is it administered? shots (if warranted) in order of foul occurrences? than POI?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jburt

how is it administered? shots (if warranted) in order of foul occurrences? than POI?

False doubles are administered in order, that's it. No POI.

Take my example above.
A1 gets his free throws (foul 1).
Then, B gets two free throws and the ball (foul2).

Another example would be if A1 (the shooter) fouls B1 (on the lane) during the rebounding action of the free throw. Assuming it's during the first free throw of a one-and-one, you would shoot the 2nd (assuming A1 made the first one) with the lane cleared, then either proceed to your throwin for B or your free throws for B1 with the lane occupied if B is in the bonus.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

The double foul attributes are that they are both "personal" fouls or both "technical" fouls.

In a false double foul, one is a personal and the other is a technical. The fouls still occur at approximately the same time but the first foul causes the ball to become dead and the clock to stop. The second foul is a dead ball foul and possibly resulting in a technical. Thus one personal and one technical.

I think you meant to type "the second foul occurs before the clock is restarted"?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

I've always been told to have good "game management" and "preventative officiating" to make sure I don't get in the situation of having that lovely "false double foul".

If you believe that, you don't know what a false double foul really is.

They happen regularly...perhaps in a majority of games....even multiple times in some games.

[Mark Padgett]

Substitute "criteria" or "requirements" for "attributes" and it might help.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Freddy

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

The double foul attributes are that they are both "personal" fouls or both "technical" fouls.

In a false double foul, one is a personal and the other is a technical. The fouls still occur at approximately the same time but the first foul causes the ball to become dead and the clock to stop. The second foul is a dead ball foul and possibly resulting in a technical. Thus one personal and one technical.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

The double foul attributes are that they are both "personal" fouls or both "technical" fouls.

In a false double foul, one is a personal and the other is a technical. The fouls still occur at approximately the same time but the first foul causes the ball to become dead and the clock to stop. The second foul is a dead ball foul and possibly resulting in a technical. Thus one personal and one technical.

As Bob pointed out there are more attributes to a false double than just the type of foul. Both fouls can be personal or technical and still be a false double. A1 is an airborne shooter and is fouled by B1. Before returning to the floor A1 fouls B2. This is a false double foul.

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by rwest

As Bob pointed out there are more attributes to a false double than just the type of foul. Both fouls can be personal or technical and still be a false double. A1 is an airborne shooter and is fouled by B1. Before returning to the floor A1 fouls B2. This is a false double foul.

would the infamous "blarge" be a false double foul?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jburt

would the infamous "blarge" be a false double foul?

The blarge is an actual double foul.