More thoughts from John Adams

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajs8207

Is congratulating players on a good play something you personally do? I never have I've always assumed it to be out of line. Maybe I'm wrong...

I do this a lot. When a player dives for the ball, when a player makes a great hustle play I will let them know I noticed. This is a great way to get their attention so when you say something they might not like, they will listen to you at that time.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I think I understand what he's saying, and I agree with it. Have you ever had a ball go OOB in front of you, and you're not initially sure whose ball it should be, and before you ask for help you see all the players start walking to other end of the floor? They know whose ball it is. And there really is a subtle difference in player reactions when they really are astonished/confused at the call, as opposed to the "I've gotta look amazed so coach doesn't chew my a$$ for that stupid foul". You've probably also seen that look when you blow the whistle for the foul when there are two defenders there - one of them will give you the truly amazed look, then relax after you tell them the call was actually against their teammate.

It's not a 100% accurate barometer, and it doesn't happen every game, but there really are instances where a player can indicate whether or not you got the call right or wrong.

I completely agree with your assessment on this.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I think I understand what he's saying, and I agree with it. Have you ever had a ball go OOB in front of you, and you're not initially sure whose ball it should be, and before you ask for help you see all the players start walking to other end of the floor? They know whose ball it is.

That's not what I got out of it, obviously; but if that's all he meant, I can live with that.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2) he was saying "use the players to help you evaluate your officiating and what you need to work on."

If that's what he was saying, then I couldn't disagree more. Players know jack about the rules and officiating. I would NEVER consider a player's reaction to be useful in evaluating what I need to work on.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do this a lot. When a player dives for the ball, when a player makes a great hustle play I will let them know I noticed.

I agree. I will often say "Nice hustle", but I will never say "Nice shot" or something similar. Congratulating a kid on a scoring play is a little too close to rooting for my liking. (And just to be clear, I'm NOT saying that JRutledge said that he would do that. I'm just stating my own feeling on it.)

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If that's what he was saying, then I couldn't disagree more. Players know jack about the rules and officiating. I would NEVER consider a player's reaction to be useful in evaluating what I need to work on.

Coaches as well. I usually figure I'm doing a good job if both coaches are pissed off at me.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Coaches as well. I usually figure I'm doing a good job if both coaches are pissed off at me.

Hey now, I got a 92 and a half!!!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If that's what he was saying, then I couldn't disagree more. Players know jack about the rules and officiating. I would NEVER consider a player's reaction to be useful in evaluating what I need to work on.

True, I wouldn't use a player's reaction as the lead item in the teaching syllabus. But it is useful information, in that I can look back over that play and evaluate why I probably missed that call. Maybe I was lazy in a rotation; maybe I guessed at contact instead of actually seeing the contact; maybe I was looking somewhere I should not have been looking?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If that's what he was saying, then I couldn't disagree more. Players know jack about the rules and officiating. I would NEVER consider a player's reaction to be useful in evaluating what I need to work on.

Never say never and never say always.

How about the reaction of the offended player? Ever call a foul and then notice that the offended player is surprised to be going to the free throw line? or he chuckles and pats the defender on the butt b/c he knows he just got a freebie?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

A few days ago, I got an email from my D3 association containing some thoughts from John Adams, NCAA Coordinator of Officials. I posted it here: Blarge Alert

I don't know how (probably through my eOfficials.com account), but I somehow got subscribed to an email newsletter from Ref60.com. In any case, they posted a brief interview with John Adams and so I thought I'd share it. There's no registration required to listen:

John Adams on Transitioning to College Ball

There were a couple of comments that really raised my eyebrows, but I won't post them yet. I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts, though.

Anticipating comment caught my attention. A patient whistle works on every level.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Anticipating comment caught my attention. A patient whistle works on every level.

Yes, but it is much more essential at the college ranks. You can call something quick often at the high school ranks and everyone thinks you called the right thing. That is not often the case with college players and their abilities. Many high school officials call things just because it looks bad or because it might technically fit the definition of a foul.

Peace

[jeffpea]

this is a "when in Rome...." situation. if you don't agree w/ Mr. Adams, then keep it to yourself if you are interested in working in the NCAA D1 Tournament. If that is of no interest to you, then by all means, go right ahead and state your disagreement. comments have a funny way of getting around in this business (which reminds me: do you know the 3 forms of communication? 1) telephone, 2) telefax, and 3) tell-a-ref.....)

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

if you don't agree w/ Mr. Adams, then keep it to yourself if you are interested in working in the NCAA D1 Tournament.

First of all, I don't think there are too many of us on this forum who have serious hopes of working the tournament.

Second, hopefully, Mr. Adams is adult enough that he can listen to other points of view from people who have been officiating for 10, 15, or 20 years without holding grudges.

Third, I'm not sure why you think you're the authority on how the tournament selection process works or why you think you're the right person to tell others to "keep it to yourself".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

First of all, I don't think there are too many of us on this forum who have serious hopes of working the tournament.

Second, hopefully, Mr. Adams is adult enough that he can listen to other points of view from people who have been officiating for 10, 15, or 20 years without holding grudges.

Third, I'm not sure why you think you're the authority on how the tournament selection process works or why you think you're the right person to tell others to "keep it to yourself".

I do not think that Jeff's comments were about how many want to work the tournament. I think he was giving a cautious warning to those that are here that would some day like to work the D1 level. And there are people here that have that desire. I know Jeff and I have met them going to the same camps.

Secondly, I really do not think John cares what you or I think regardless of how long with have been officiating. John is a person that comes up with his way of thinking and it was not developed because people agreed or disagreed with him.

And finally, this comment was not about being an authority. All the times people say things and speak does not make them an authority. Considering we have a couple of people that think every time the NF says something I hardly look at these comments as someone trying to be an authority.

Peace

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

First of all, I don't think there are too many of us on this forum who have serious hopes of working the tournament.

Second, hopefully, Mr. Adams is adult enough that he can listen to other points of view from people who have been officiating for 10, 15, or 20 years without holding grudges.

Third, I'm not sure why you think you're the authority on how the tournament selection process works or why you think you're the right person to tell others to "keep it to yourself".

Scrapper1, don't sell yourself short. you should always have lofty goals to which you strive.....

Like a good official who doesn't tell a coach he's "wrong", my previous post used the word "if" twice in the second sentence conditioned on the fact that you may be interested in working the tournament (of course I followed that up with the caveat that you're free to say whatever you want if you have no interest in the tourney). I'm sorry if you took offense to that...I should have said..."if you don't agree w/ Mr. Adams, then you probably should keep it to yourself".....

You see the person (technically the D1 Men's Basketball Committee) responsible for selecting tourney officials gets to select them based on his/their criteria. You can work a game however you want, but if it is not to their liking, you don't get assigned a game (or advance past a certain level). Steve Welmer has worked 110+ D1 games every year for a long time and has never advanced to the Final Four....why that is I don't know, but I certainly think he is skilled enough to work that assignment.

Discussion forums like these work best when you do not try to "read between the lines". I did not position myself as the tournament authority nor do I feel that I'm the "right one" to tell others to keep quiet.

By the way, since you have no "serious hopes of working the tournament", my post encouraged you to: "go right ahead and state your disagreement" (w/ Mr. Adams). Why did the post bother you so much?