Time Out

[CoachP]

A1 dribbles in to a trap at half court, picks up dribble, and is closely guarded by B1 and B2. A1 realizes she is getting close to a 5 second call, so she gathers up the ball under one arm against her torso and makes the "T" sign and requests time out.

Before the trail gets air in the whistle to grant the time out, B1 has tapped the ball loose where B2 would have an easy layup the other way.

Continue play? Grant the time out? IW? Who's ball? Arrow?

[mbyron]

Grant the time-out. "Coach, I granted the time-out before the ball came loose."

[mick]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Grant the time-out. "Coach, I granted the time-out before the ball came loose."

...or...
Coach, I recognized the request before ....

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by CoachP

A1 dribbles in to a trap at half court, picks up dribble, and is closely guarded by B1 and B2. A1 realizes she is getting close to a 5 second call, so she gathers up the ball under one arm against her torso and makes the "T" sign and requests time out.

Before the trail gets air in the whistle to grant the time out, B1 has tapped the ball loose where B2 would have an easy layup the other way.

Continue play? Grant the time out? IW? Who's ball? Arrow?

This is a TO. The TO was requested when A has the player possession inbounds. I don't care if B had put the ball through the basket. It is still a TO.

[CoachP]

Slight change, instead of B1 knocking the ball loose in the OP, B1 pushes A1 while playing the ball and knocks the ball loose.

Foul? Ignore the foul?

[mick]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Slight change, instead of B1 knocking the ball loose in the OP, B1 pushes A1 while playing the ball and knocks the ball loose.

Foul? Ignore the foul?

Whether the foul happened or not, that is another way to keep the Defense's coach quiet.

"Coach, I recognized the request ... before the foul...."

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Slight change, instead of B1 knocking the ball loose in the OP, B1 pushes A1 while playing the ball and knocks the ball loose.

Foul? Ignore the foul?

HTBT. I've passed on slight pushes before. But if there is a trap, and B1 pushes A1, now the contact has a larger impact, and the foul should be called.

Edit: if there is a TO request before the foul, it is still a TO, and no foul.

Edit 2: looks like mick has the jump on me all morning.

[CoachP]

Rule Refs? Casebook plays? (On any of my two plays)

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Rule Refs? Casebook plays? (On any of my two plays)

Events should be handled in the order they occurred. If the TO request happened prior to the push, the player gets the TO. You're not really asking a rules related question here.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You're not really asking a rules related question here.

No, I'm "data" gathering at this point....

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by CoachP

No, I'm "data" gathering at this point....

I think what will actually happen in a game situation will vary depending on the timing and severity of the events, and the experience level of your officials. If the TO request is clear and noticed prior to any potential foul, the TO should be granted and the foul ignored unless it is severe enough to be a T. If the foul happens close enough to the TO request or the TO request isn't clear enough, the foul might be called. But if the TO request is clear before anything else, grant the TO.

[mick]

Originally Posted by CoachP

No, I'm "data" gathering at this point....

If you are gleaning as a coach,

• A verbal request from your players works pretty well, better than the "T" for me.
• A Coach's "T" from the box works pretty well, better than the verbal for me.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mick

A Coach's "T" from the box works pretty well, better than the verbal for me.

Careful, mick - you don't want the coach to think he can be giving us a "T"?

Just in my experience, the verbal works better for me in both instances. An exception to that might be if we are on the other end of the floor, tight game, loud crowd, etc., and it is easier to see the signal than it is to hear the request. But, like you said, it might be easier for the player to verbalize the request rather than try to juggle the ball while giving the signal.

[mick]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Careful, mick - you don't want the coach to think he can be giving us a "T"?

Just in my experience, the verbal works better for me in both instances. An exception to that might be if we are on the other end of the floor, tight game, loud crowd, etc., and it is easier to see the signal than it is to hear the request. But, like you said, it might be easier for the player to verbalize the request rather than try to juggle the ball while giving the signal.

You must officiate table-side most of the game, if you think you need an exception for the signal.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mick

You must officiate table-side most of the game, if you think you need an exception for the signal.

Now that you mention it, almost all of my games are 3-person, so there is usually someone close to the coach or going right by. I can see, however, in 2-person, there is more of a chance of being further away, so a signal would be more useful.

I've also had coaches "mouth" a TO request, which I've granted. I suppose, by the letter of the rule, that could be incorrect. But it was a communication that I received because I happened to be looking right at the coach at a point in the game where I figured they might want one. I even remember looking directly at one particular coach after a run by the other team, they looked back at me, then said, "Yea, sure, I'll take a time out." So, was I asking him to take a TO?