By unilateral decree...

[Nevadaref]

Ok, I'm officially going on record that I have unilaterally decreed the following NFHS interpretation to be null and void.
I refuse to enforce it and I will advocate that all of my colleagues don't follow it.

2007-08 Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 10: A1, in the team's frontcourt, passes to A2, also in the team's frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A's backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A's frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A's backcourt, but never having touched in Team A's backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A's backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation. (4-4-1; 4-4-3; 9-9-1)

[3SPORT]

RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status.

WTF - How could Team A have caused the ball to have backcourt status. They never touched it. Hard sell to the coach.

I agree, Good No Call.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by 3SPORT

WTF - How could Team A have caused the ball to have backcourt status. They never touched it. Hard sell to the coach.

The ball isn't in the backcourt until it touches something. It had frontcourt status when it was in the air over the backcourt.

On a related question, A is passing in the frontcourt and B deflects the ball into the backcourt. When do you start the 10 second count for A to get the ball to the frontcourt?

[Rock Chalk]

as soon as the ball has back court status.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

as soon as the ball has back court status.

So why does when the ball obtains back court status matter for starting the count but not for calling the violation?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by LDUB

So why does when the ball obtains back court status matter for starting the count but not for calling the violation?

The rule says team A must be the last to touch the ball "before" it gained BC status. The word "before" simply cannot mean "simultaneously," which it would have to if the interpretation is correct.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ok, I'm officially going on record that I have unilaterally decreed the following NFHS interpretation to be null and void.
I refuse to enforce it and I will advocate that all of my colleagues don't follow it.

2007-08 Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 10: A1, in the team's frontcourt, passes to A2, also in the team's frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A's backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A's frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A's backcourt, but never having touched in Team A's backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A's backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation. (4-4-1; 4-4-3; 9-9-1)

What interp? I don't recall reading any such interp. Ever.

Yooohooo, NFHS, are you listening? This interp is FLAT OUT WRONG. Utterly and completely wrong. Please fix it. Call it an editorial change if you need to save face, but get this abomination off the books.

[Kelvin green]

1) NFHS cant figure out that before means before...

2) The whole throw-in exception thing... Rule 9-9-3 on the throw-in is nonsense as well... I understand the exception ends when the throw in... ( Inow it is consistent with the college ruling but...

To fix this mess....

1) Let's define team control on the throw-in
2) g. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player,(3) a throw-in (4) any time the ball is loose.
3) Define loose ball as a bat or deflection of a throw-in...


(Go figure I got this from the NBA) it is a whole H%^ll of a lot easier...

[Grail]

I see your argument, but the following question (I'll paraphrase) is on the test every year or two:

T/F Team B causes the ball to be OOB when Thrower A1's pass is batted back into A1 before A1 has had a chance to re-enter the court.

We know this is false, as the violation is on A1 and the ball is given to B. So what makes the OP situation any different. B definitely deflected the ball, but it still had front court status. It didn't have back court status until A2 touched it. Who caused the ball to have back court status? A2.

Whether you want to call it or not is your business, but I agree with the interp.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Grail

I see your argument, but the following question (I'll paraphrase) is on the test every year or two:

T/F Team B causes the ball to be OOB when Thrower A1's pass is batted back into A1 before A1 has had a chance to re-enter the court.

We know this is false, as the violation is on A1 and the ball is given to B. So what makes the OP situation any different. B definitely deflected the ball, but it still had front court status. It didn't have back court status until A2 touched it. Who caused the ball to have back court status? A2.

Whether you want to call it or not is your business, but I agree with the interp.

Causing the ball to have BC status is not relevant. If it were, it would be a violation as soon as the ball, having been last touched by team A, touches the backcourt.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Grail

I see your argument, but the following question (I'll paraphrase) is on the test every year or two:

T/F Team B causes the ball to be OOB when Thrower A1's pass is batted back into A1 before A1 has had a chance to re-enter the court.

We know this is false, as the violation is on A1 and the ball is given to B. So what makes the OP situation any different. B definitely deflected the ball, but it still had front court status. It didn't have back court status until A2 touched it. Who caused the ball to have back court status? A2.

Whether you want to call it or not is your business, but I agree with the interp.

Because the backcourt violation rule does not mention "causing" the ball to go BC. The OOB violation rule does mention "causing" the ball to go OOB. That's the major difference.

The BC violation rule specifically requires actions by Team A "before" and "after" a specific event. The interp situation does not meet those requirements, as it is impossible for an event to happen simultaneously with something that occurs before or after it.

Dr. Emmett Brown couldn't even change that basic concept with the flux capacitor.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Because the backcourt violation rule does not mention "causing" the ball to go BC. The OOB violation rule does mention "causing" the ball to go OOB. That's the major difference.

The BC violation rule specifically requires actions by Team A "before" and "after" a specific event. The interp situation does not meet those requirements, as it is impossible for an event to happen simultaneously with something that occurs before or after it.

Dr. Emmett Brown couldn't even change that basic concept with the flux capacitor.

That's what I was going to say. I'll also add that it'[s a specific rule added to the book to define "causes the ball to be OOB" this way. If FED wants backcourt to be the same, then they should change the rule, and not just issue an interp.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dr. Emmett Brown couldn't even change that basic concept with the flux capacitor.

The thought of going "Back To the Future" on The Forum gives me a headache. I guess that it could be worse. "Groundhog Day" on the Forum would make my head explode.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dr. Emmett Brown couldn't even change that basic concept with the flux capacitor.

"Flux capacitor. . . fluxing."

[Back In The Saddle]

NFHS 7-2-2 "If the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched by a player who is on or outside a boundary line, such player causes it to go out."

NFHS 9-9-1 "A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt."

Somebody, anybody, who wants to argue that OOB rule logic applies to backcourt violations, here's your chance. Please show me, based on the actual wording of the rules, how these two rules are the same and should be looked at in the same way.

Do I hear crickets?