old discussion revisited

[lpneck]

Scrapper- nice post.

I like the POI rule better in the NCAA. Aside from the fairness issue, I think that is makes it easier for officials to call warranted technical fouls, because the penalty is not as severe.

Here is a good example of why POI is more fair, from a BV game I had a few years ago.

We are about a minute into the game. Team A is the home team, and has the ball. The score is 2-2. A1 is fouled by B1. It is the first foul of the game. We report the foul, and A gets the ball OOB. They score to take the lead 4-2. B inbounds and is starting to walk the ball up the floor.

Horn sounds a few times. We kill the play and go to the table. B1 has the wrong number in the book. Technical foul. Team A makes 2 free throws, and it is now 6-2. A Takes the ball OOB, and hits a three. 9-2. Team A ends up winning by 1.

To his credit, the team B coach admitted the error was his fault in the media, but I have never liked the fact that Team A was allowed to score 7 consecutive points without Team B ever even having a possession because of an administrative penalty.

[Raymond]

I would like for at least the administrative T's in the NFHS rule set to go to POI.

It's not beyond the realm of plausibility that a home team scorer would purposely wait until the visiting team has the ball to point out scorebook error.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am really tired of hearing about fairness.

Perhaps you should throw out your rule book then.

The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a balance of play; to provide equal opportunity between the offense and the defense; to provide equal opportunity between the small player and tall player; to provide reasonable safety and protection; to create an atmosphere of sporting behavior and fair play; and to emphasize cleverness and skill without unduly limiting freedom of action of individual or team play on either offense or defense.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by lpneck

I have never liked the fact that Team A was allowed to score 7 consecutive points without Team B ever even having a possession because of an administrative penalty.

Interesting. Maybe you should have played better defense on the 3-pointer then.

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Interesting. Maybe you should have played better defense on the 3-pointer then.

Um... I was officiating the game, so probably not?

Not that my defense would have helped them.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Keeping in mind that my mother is a Kansas native and a graduate of the Univ. of Kansas. Dr. Naismith is the asnwer to a trivia question that very very few people get the right answer.

Dr. Naismith was the first men's basketball coach at Kansas (that is why the court at Phogg Allen Fieldhouse is named after Dr. Naismith) and coached two players that went on to be legendary college coaches: Adoph Rupp (Kentucky) and Dr. Phogg Allen (Kansas).

The trivia question: Who is the only men's basketball coach at Kansas to have a losing record for his tenure at Kansas?

Also Dr. Naismith had doctorates in two areas: medicene and theology. And was a Canadian.

MTD, Sr.

Word.

Could he try to save you, and issue last rites when he couldn't?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Um... I was officiating the game, so probably not?

Well, you just seemed so distraught that one team would score points on the other that I just figured you would have jumped in and put a hand up in the shooter's face or something.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would like for at least the administrative T's in the NFHS rule set to go to POI.

It's not beyond the realm of plausibility that a home team scorer would purposely wait until the visiting team has the ball to point out scorebook error.

I agree with this.

[Back In The Saddle]

I'd like that better as well. Administrivia, while important, is not the game and should be as unobtrusive to the game as possible, IMHO.

[Adam]

This would mean that on a book T to start the game, we would still use the jump ball to set the arrow.

[CoachP]

Skip the FT's all together on administrative.

Why should someone get 2 FT's on a bookkeeping error, but the first 6 non shooting fouls of the game are not FT's?

Mark them up as a team foul and move on????

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Skip the FT's all together on administrative.

Why should someone get 2 FT's on a bookkeeping error, but the first 6 non shooting fouls of the game are not FT's?

I think the original thinking was that "administrative" errors could be intentional and deceptive to try to gain some kind of advantage. Obviously, virtually all are just "honest" mistakes but there's no way to know the intent so they just assume worst case scenario.

At least that's what Dr. Naismith once told me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

At least that's what Dr. Naismith once told me.

Was Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. your partner in that game?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

At least that's what Dr. Naismith once told me.

Was Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. your partner in that game?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Perhaps you should throw out your rule book then.

fiasco:

Let's read the whole item at the beginning of the NFHS Basketball Rules.

THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES
The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a
balance of play; to provide equal opportunity between the offense and the
defense; to provide equal opportunity between the small player and tall player; to
provide reasonable safety and protection; to create an atmosphere of sporting
behavior and fair play; and to emphasize cleverness and skill without unduly
limiting freedom of action of individual or team play on either offense or defense.
Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule.
It is the policy of the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee that there be no
deviation from the rules unless experimental approval has been granted by the
NFHS liaison to the rules committee.
THE GAME – Basketball is played by two teams of five players each. The
purpose of each team is to throw the ball into its own basket and to prevent the
other team from scoring. The ball may be thrown, batted, rolled or dribbled in any
direction, subject to restrictions laid down in the following rules.

The phrase in red refers to player conduct. Nothing in the Intent and Purpose of the Rules says anything about the rules being fair. Players and teams commit infractions of the rules. When that happens there are penalties that are applied. That means that a team gains an advatage at the expense of its opponent commiting an infraction of the rules. There is nothing in the Intent and Purpose about the rules being fair.

MTD, Sr.