Coach drags out the rule book

[barkeep49]

I'm currently working on becoming an official (I've finished the test, but haven't sent it in yet since I want to double check my answers). I have previously coached travel youth basketball, 4th and 5th grade. So we're not talking varsity here, though many of the refs we get also do varsity. In particular the home court refs my park district gets are very good. Last year, between my two teams (from two different PDs), the other team got whistled for 5 technicals (which I thought was a lot). In one of those cases the player who I wanted to shoot the FT was already on the court. In the other 4, as luck would have it, he was not. Only one time was I allowed to insert my preferred player. I never argued the decision in anyway (after all, they've just given some other guy a T and I'm the good guy at this point ), but I did grow frustrated that 60% of the time I was not able to have my preferred player shooting FTs after a T. Was the best thing there for me to just keep my mouth shut, as I did? Or would there have been a way for me to get the rule enforced correctly?

[Back In The Saddle]

You might just phrase it in the form of a question with an obvious answer...

"Any eligible player or substitute can show these shots, right ref?"

...as you're walking Little Johnny to the table to check in.

This, IMHO, has both the advantage of using rule book terminology, which might just jog the ref's memory, and being non-confrontational. Because you're walking Johnny to the table, if the ref isn't sure, you may just get him in anyway.

If the ref doesn't let you bring in a sub, then maybe contact whomever is in charge of getting refs for the park district the next day. Who knows, it may even result in an email going out to all of the officials "reminding" them about proper procedure on this. In which case, you've done more good than just getting one set of refs to let you do the right thing.

Just my $0.02

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

....then maybe contact whomever is in charge of getting refs for the park district the next day. Who knows, it may even result in an email going out to all of the officials "reminding" them about proper procedure on this. In which case, you've done more good than just getting one set of refs to let you do the right thing.

Just my $0.02

Absolutely concur.

While your refs seem above the level of "Rec League Officials" I see in my leagues, we do misapply a rule or two every now and again (especially if it's league/age specific). As one of the more knowledgeable officials (which isn't really saying much), I sometimes send a note to the Ref Assignor and cc: the League Commish and let them know some of my observations (and I let them know when I make an error too) in hopes they will send out an informative, non-accusatory, instructional note out to the officials and do some good for the league.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by barkeep49

youth basketball, 4th and 5th grade.

the other team got whistled for 5 technicals (which I thought was a lot).


Was the best thing there for me to just keep my mouth shut, as I did?

Yes, you did the best thing. I wouldn't even blink wrong if the officials were that T happy!!

Why in the world were they assesed 5 techs?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by barkeep49

I'm currently working on becoming an official (I've finished the test, but haven't sent it in yet since I want to double check my answers). I have previously coached travel youth basketball, 4th and 5th grade. So we're not talking varsity here, though many of the refs we get also do varsity. In particular the home court refs my park district gets are very good. Last year, between my two teams (from two different PDs), the other team got whistled for 5 technicals (which I thought was a lot). In one of those cases the player who I wanted to shoot the FT was already on the court. In the other 4, as luck would have it, he was not. Only one time was I allowed to insert my preferred player. I never argued the decision in anyway (after all, they've just given some other guy a T and I'm the good guy at this point ), but I did grow frustrated that 60% of the time I was not able to have my preferred player shooting FTs after a T. Was the best thing there for me to just keep my mouth shut, as I did? Or would there have been a way for me to get the rule enforced correctly?

Yes, you are allowed to have whomever you wish shoot the FTs for the technical foul issued to the opposing team.

It makes no sense from an officiating standpoint to only allow once out of 4 times a "preferred player to shot the FTs".

The officials either are certain they think they know the rule, or they are not certain that they know the rule. If they are certain that they think they know the rule, then they should have allowed all or none "preferred players" to shoot the Ts. If they know they don't know the rule, then they should have allowed the preferred player 2 times, because then they are incorrect at most 2 times, but are also correct 2 times.

Either way, the officials weren't consistent in this game, and that frustrates coaches. Right, barkeep49?

[Adam]

they were different games, Juggler.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

they were different games, Juggler.

Ooops! Thanks, Snaqs.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Yes, you are allowed to have whomever you wish shoot the FTs for the technical foul issued to the opposing team.

Almost all the time. Don't forget the rule that you have to sit a tick.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Yes, you did the best thing. I wouldn't even blink wrong if the officials were that T happy!!

Why in the world were they assesed 5 techs?

they were different games.

[Stat-Man]

MS 7th grade game... Getting ready to shoot FT and the visiting team HC and referee claim only 5 players can be in the lane under NFHS rules. I had no problem telling the R's partner that it's six in the lane and showing it to him in the rules. Of course, I was polite about it and did it in a way not to show up the officials (especially after initially reading this post ). But I would never do this for a judgement call, just something as obvious as this or if the officials needed assistance with league-specific rules which are quite prevalent in MS and CYO ball here.

Afew years back, I was at a college game where the home crew erroneously changed the AP arrow (we had a foul before the throw in was complete, meaing the arrow shoudl have stayed with us). When they half ended, I told the officials the arrow should not have been switched because of the foul, but (in this ara, anyways), they didn't seem to knwo the rule, so I asked if they could at least check during their halftime meeting. WQhen they came out, they said while the rule section I cited was off by one section, I was correct, and they directed the table to switch the arrow back. Of course the table crew and opposing coach weren't too happy. I should have told them they could have 2 of the next 3

Now on the other hand, I'm not sure I'd want a coach digging out the rule book during the game either. That could be a recipe for disaster