Help with what to say to partner

[zebraman]

Are you serious Rut?

I know I am going to do it again, but I usually have more Ts in girls games.

I have called a few coaches on Girls coaches over the years (mostly male coaches by the way), but I don't know as I have ever called a "T" on a girl player.
Did you ref the Girls Correction Center Leagues or something? Or perhaps you are reffing some "special" leagues for the girls who have failed anger management classes? :-)

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman
Are you serious Rut?

I know I am going to do it again, but I usually have more Ts in girls games.

I have called a few coaches on Girls coaches over the years (mostly male coaches by the way), but I don't know as I have ever called a "T" on a girl player.
Did you ref the Girls Correction Center Leagues or something? Or perhaps you are reffing some "special" leagues for the girls who have failed anger management classes? :-)

Z

Well I am joking and I am serious at the same time. I really do not know the reason why I have givin more Ts, (well at least the emotional part ) but most of my Ts have been in Girl's Varsity games. Mainly because the coaches (Men and Women) tend to say more to you about calls. Boy's Varsity Coaches and players tend to be more sneaky and say thing under their breath. So you do not hear the comment or you do not know where it came from. Girl's Coaches and players (especially players) tend to try to be more vocal with you. Ask you questions or tell on other players. I actually had a girl this past year after calling an obvious foul tell her teammate as we were about to shoot FTs "that was a great block girl, you do that the next time." Now I came back with, "if you think you are good enough to be in the WNBA, try that there, but on my court that will not be tolerated." It got chuckles and laughs from the other girls and basicially stopped further action. Well not really, because a couple times down the court I called T on this particular girl. Oh well.

I have had the weirdest comments come from Girls games that I have never heard in any of my Boys games. I have never after a Boys game or during had a coach actually ask me if what I was calling was about them. I have had that happen a few times at girls games. I have never called 25 fouls in the first half in a boys game with both teams in the 2 Shot Bonus and had a coach say outloud, "I do not care about consistency, I just want you to call the darn foul." And in this particular game, every foul a girl was getting completely knocked to the floor. Not touch fouls, but instead of the coaches telling the players STOP FOULING, they blamed my partner and I for not calling enough. WHAT??!!

It has seemed to me for a long time that you can have the perfect game on the girl's side and you will get yelled at, threatened, rated lower and banned. Have the same game on the boy's side and you were the best official that they have ever seen that year. I realize that is a major generalization and over simplification of the issue, but I personally have had many more problems with coaches, players and fans on the girl's side of the ball.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

had a coach say outloud, "I do not care about consistency, I just want you to call the darn foul."

Without trying to stir the pot, I have noticed that coaches for girls' teams in my area do not care much about consistently letting the girls play through minor contact. They expect the officials to "call the darn foul".

I think this is b/c (in my area, at least) officials were divided into a "girls' board" and a "boys' board" until just three years ago. Generally speaking, if you weren't good enough to get boys' games, you joined the girls' board. That meant that the coaches were seeing average to poor officials, even on Varsity games. And those officials didn't exercise very good judgment in whether contact constituted a foul or not. So they tended to call all contact as fouls.

Then when the "boys' officials" started doing the girls games, we tried to exercise some of that judgment. But the coaches still haven't really made the adjustment. They expect the whistle to blow on anything that looks close.

That's just my experience, but it might explain the goofy comment from that coach.

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on May 5th, 2002 at 03:11 PM]

[Stan]

You're refering to girls officials and boys officials, in HS, don't they play the games for the most part one right after the other? In Iowa we still have a girls state assn. and a boys assn. and the officials must belong to both, however, one pair of officials call both games.

[ChuckElias]

Stan, the short answer to your question is no. Girls and boys rarely play games on the same floor on the same night. Because of a Title IX lawsuit, the schools are now required to schedule an equal number of games for the girls and the boys on the "preferred" nights of the week (viz., Tuesday and Friday). This means that the girls and boys almost never play at the same site.

Additionally, officials in western MA are never scheduled to do back-to-back HS games. I don't know why that is, but every game has a different crew. Sometimes, obviously, if an official fails to show for a game then another official will have to "double dip" to cover the game, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

Lastly, as I mentioned in the above post, until 3 years ago our officials belonged to either the "boys' board" (and would get assigned boys' games only) or the "girls' board" (and would get assigned girls' games only). We were not required to be members of both boards. In fact, it was met with strong disapproval (mostly from the "boys' board") if it was discovered that you were on both boards. As I said, the girls' board was usually seen as the place for guys who couldn't get a decent boys' schedule.

That has all changed now. Now, officials from either board can work either boys or girls games, at the assignor's discretion. The result is that, within 5 years, I believe there will no longer be a "girls' board".

Chuck

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Stan
You're refering to girls officials and boys officials, in HS, don't they play the games for the most part one right after the other? In Iowa we still have a girls state assn. and a boys assn. and the officials must belong to both, however, one pair of officials call both games.

Not in Illinois it is not. Boy's and Girl's games are usually on seperate nights. And with those certain conferences because of some litigation that required the boy's and girl's teams to play on the same nights, the same assignors usually do not assign both. And when they do assign both, they are not assigning the same official for both. There are usually "Boy's" Officials and "Girls" Officials. At least in the assignors eyes. Even in the AD's eyes much of the time that assign their own games.

And about belonging to both associations in Iowa. I did Baseball for two years in Iowa and I only belonged to the Boy's Assiciation. Now maybe it is different in basketball, but I was always told that you had to apply to both if you wanted to do both Girl's and Boy's games. But it was never a requirement. But maybe it was the association that I belonged to.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Stan, the short answer to your question is no. Girls and boys rarely play games on the same floor on the same night. Because of a Title IX lawsuit, the schools are now required to schedule an equal number of games for the girls and the boys on the "preferred" nights of the week (viz., Tuesday and Friday). This means that the girls and boys almost never play at the same site.


Chuck

Well Chuck in Northern Illinois, there was an school district that got sued for not playing Girl's games on similar nights as the Boy's games. Because in Illinois, most girls games would be played on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and the occasion Saturday game. Boy's would almost always be played on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday.

This school district got sued by the claim that Girls were playing on mostly school nights and would have to deal with going to school the next day. The Boy's would only have to deal with that one night a week for the most part and have days off from school after playing a Friday and Saturday. This was all based on Title IX.

This lawsuit changed the conference in which they are a member of. They started playing all games on both Boy's and Girl's games on the same nights within the conference. The Girl's would play first, the boy's next. And this influenced another conference that I worked, and they went to a similar format.

Officials hated it that had to do the girls games. Those games would be at 6:00 in the evening so they would have to be their much earlier than normal and no one would be there. But when the Boy's games started, the place would be packed. And supposibly they are going to switch it around this coming year. I think this might change or their might be some kind of compromise after this year. But we will see.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Jeff,

So even though the games were played on the same night, in the same gym, they use two different crews?

Is this 2 man or 3 man?

What are the game fees?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by zebraman
I have called a few coaches on Girls coaches over the years (mostly male coaches by the way), but I don't know as I have ever called a "T" on a girl player.
Did you ref the Girls Correction Center Leagues or something? Or perhaps you are reffing some "special" leagues for the girls who have failed anger management classes? :-)

To the contrary Z, you must have debutantes playing in your leagues!

This season:

I call the 5th foul on a young lady. She heads to the bench, knowing she already has 4. She turns to me. "Bull$hit!" WHACK!

My partner called a foul on a girl. I guess she didn't like the call because she took her mouthpeice and threw it at the bleachers. He didn't see her but I did. WHACK!

Conference tourney championship game - Same partner calls the 4th personal on a girl with 30 seconds remaining in the 2nd qtr. She slams the ball to the floor. I let him have this one. WHACK!

I don't think they're that much different than boys, with regard to how they feel about calls.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Jeff,

So even though the games were played on the same night, in the same gym, they use two different crews?

Is this 2 man or 3 man?

What are the game fees?

Depends on the conference.

The community that got sued using Title IX, they only use 2 Man. I only did one Girl's Varsity game in that conference total in the middle of the afternoon on a Saturday. I did no boys in that conference. But the assignor that assigns it, assigns two conferences (HS Conferences, he assigns many college conferences too). I did only Boy's basketball in the "other" conference that is closer to my house. I am not 100% sure of the game fees in that conference. I want to say $48 for one game. I could be mistaken on that thought.

The conference that decided to play games on the same night without any litigation directly changing things, they pay $48 per official and 3 Officials per game. This was the first year for them to go with 3 Officials for all games. I do not think the pay was any different, but the assignor does not schedule his officials both Boy's and Girl's in this conference. He believes there are "Boy's" and "Girl's" Officials. At least that is what he has told officials in the past. Really nice guy, that is just what he believes.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
So even though the games were played on the same night, in the same gym, they use two different crews?

Is this 2 man or 3 man?

What are the game fees?

TH, in my neck of the woods, that's how it's done. Each game girls or boys, Fr, JV, or Var, gets its own crew.

This is partly b/c we have about 120 guys on our board and we only service 11 or 12 public schools, a couple of prep schools, and a couple of parochial schools. (Unlike my lacrosse board that has 40 guys to work every game west of the Connecticut River!)

We work exclusively 2-man for HS. Varsity fee is $62, JV and Fr is $44.

Chuck

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Unlike my lacrosse board that has 40 guys to work every game west of the Connecticut River!

You mean, for the whole country???!!! YIKES! You guys must get a hell of a travel allowance.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

You mean, for the whole country???!!! YIKES! You guys must get a hell of a travel allowance.

Oops, no. Just to the NY state border. And we don't get any travel allowance at all.

Chuck