Help with what to say to partner

Mark Padgett · #1 (**permalink**) Fri May 03, 2002, 05:32pm

Last week, I worked a shift of HS boys varsity rec games with a fairly competent partner. We had one coach who gave him some crap. This surprised me, since I have had games with this coach for 3 or 4 years now, and I always found him to be pretty good. He's a nice guy and asks good questions. But, in our game, he thought my partner was letting too much go under the basket and told him so about 10 times.

I have this same partner again and this same team again this weekend for two games. Based on past experience with this partner, I know he is going to say something to the coach before the game. It's not going to be pretty. This will set a lousy tone for both games. Also from experience with this partner, I know that if I try to intervene or tell him to let it go and not say anything, he will be mad at me the entire day and make things miserable.

Short of asking to switch courts (probably not possible) - any suggestions? I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. Usually I can handle this stuff, but this partner is a personal friend of the assignor. YIKES!

crew · #2 (**permalink**) Fri May 03, 2002, 05:52pm

mark,
you could try to catch him before he approaches the coach and start a pregame of how you would like to address the coaches actions during the game. it, as you said, would not be wise to address the coach before the game because this would give him the feeling that the crew is out to get him before the game has even started. today is a new day and a new game, and should be started with a clean slate. if your partner is competent he should be able to handle his issues or the issues that occur during the game. if not you 2 should be able to come together and get things straightened out and the ball in play.

ChuckElias · #3 (**permalink**) Fri May 03, 2002, 07:05pm

I agree with tony's advice. However, if you think that approaching him about it, even in that way, would prove to be counter-productive on the court then I would suggest that when the two of you walk onto the court that you be the one to broach it with the coach. Don't give your partner a chance to get hot. Just say to the coach (but really, to both of them) something like, "Coach, I know we had some problems in our last game, but I think everybody here is big enough to start fresh tonight. Good luck."

If your partner starts in on the coach after that, he looks like a complete friggin idiot. It would be admitting that he wasn't big enough to let it go and start over. If he's really determined to get into it and make himself look like a jerk, then there's not much you can do.

Good luck with it and let us know how it gets handled.

Good to have you back, tony. I was wondering where you took off to.

Chuck

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Fri May 03, 2002, 08:43pm

Mark,

I think you are being way too assumtive. You do not know what is going to happen. Unless your partner made some comment (which are not sharing at this point) do not over assume what might not ever happen. Just because he was giving him crap one time does not mean he will do the same the next time. You might not have any problems at all.

Just relax, it is not the end of the world. If you see a problem do your best get in the middle and solve it.

There must be more to this than you are telling us. I really do not see why anything "bad" has to happen because a coach gave an official some crap. That comes with the territory.

Peace

Mark Padgett · #5 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 12:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Mark,

I think you are being way too assumtive. You do not know what is going to happen. Unless your partner made some comment (which are not sharing at this point) do not over assume what might not ever happen. Just because he was giving him crap one time does not mean he will do the same the next time. You might not have any problems at all.

Just relax, it is not the end of the world. If you see a problem do your best get in the middle and solve it.

There must be more to this than you are telling us. I really do not see why anything "bad" has to happen because a coach gave an official some crap. That comes with the territory.

Peace

Rut - I think you are missing something, as you allude to in your title of your post. I'm not saying that something "bad" has to happen, I'm saying that, knowing this partner, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that something "bad" will happen. He will make a big scene before the game regardless of what I do or try to do. He's done it before, and it is routine with him.

Actually, I like Chuck's theory of me being preemptive and talking with both coaches first as if it is just a normal thing to do. I know the one coach is clever enough to figure out what I am doing, and maybe my partner would then be too embarrassed to make a scene after that.

I'll let you guys know what happened.

zebraman · #6 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 12:25am

"do not over assume what might not ever happen."

Based on past experience with this partner, I know he is going to say something to the coach before the game.

I'd say that Mark has past experience that leads him to believe that this ref holds a grudge. Just like we have preventative officiating during a game, having preventative officiating before the game might not be a bad idea in this case either.

Even though this guy is buddies with the assignor, this might be a good time for you to be a leader and take charge of this game before it starts. Do you think you could "head off a problem" if you assumed the role of ref and "took over" the pregame duties? Any ref who holds a grudge is a weaker ref than you - handle it!

Z

mick · #7 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 07:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Last week, I worked a shift of HS boys varsity rec games with a fairly competent partner. We had one coach who gave him some crap. This surprised me, since I have had games with this coach for 3 or 4 years now, and I always found him to be pretty good. He's a nice guy and asks good questions. But, in our game, he thought my partner was letting too much go under the basket and told him so about 10 times.

I have this same partner again and this same team again this weekend for two games. Based on past experience with this partner, I know he is going to say something to the coach before the game. It's not going to be pretty. This will set a lousy tone for both games. Also from experience with this partner, I know that if I try to intervene or tell him to let it go and not say anything, he will be mad at me the entire day and make things miserable.

Short of asking to switch courts (probably not possible) - any suggestions? I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. Usually I can handle this stuff, but this partner is a personal friend of the assignor. YIKES!

Mark,
This may rightly be described as a sticky wicket.
I would do nothing specifically premptive, nor proactive.
Go into the game with a couple jokes with your partner and a couple more with your coaches. Lighten the mood before the game. Wear a larger than normal smile. And do not mention, or allude to, past turmoil which can only serve to open old wounds.
Overtly show that your are there with full intentions of having a good time with everyone. Don't place your self between your partner or your coaches.
Just get in, get done and get out.
Have a fun time and don't bear the burden.
mick

LarryS · #8 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 07:49am

I had a very similar situation. I was told my partner had a rough game earlier in the week with a coach we were getting in the first game of a tournament the following Saturday. When I asked one of the officails who were working the other gym if/how to bring it up, he said "watch this". He then got all the officials at the school together and said he needed some help. Lying through his teeth he talked about how he and one of the coached in his first game had a couple of run-ins earlier this season. Then he said "I can tell I'm in a grumpy mood today, any advice on how not to let my history with this guy impact today's game".

My partner jumped in with most of the above advice. Guess after that time counseling another official he let his history go. We had an easy, uneventful first game and a very enjoyable day. You may want to try that, no promises but at least if you take the approach that you may have the problem he wont be on the defensive.

Mark Padgett · #9 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 11:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Go into the game with a couple jokes with your partner and a couple more with your coaches. mick

Jokes? I don't know any jokes. What should I do now? HELP!!!

mick · #10 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Go into the game with a couple jokes with your partner and a couple more with your coaches. mick

Jokes? I don't know any jokes. What should I do now? HELP!!!

Mark,
Yeah, right!

Okay, then... just wear a Big Grin like you are thinking of a joke....

mick

Mark Padgett · #11 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 05:12pm

Well, I got to the gym early and the coach saw me and came over to talk. He asked if either my partner from last week and/or I were going to do his game today. I told him we both were. He got a little pale and said he knew he got my partner mad at him last week and if there was anything I could suggest he do.

I told him to just coach his team and not put any focus on the officiating beyond what he normally does. I told him that in my opinion, each game starts from scratch and he would be treated by me just as I treat any coach. He thanked me and walked away.

Just then, my partner came in. He saw me talking with the coach. He said, "I'm glad you straightened him out. Saves me the trouble." I just nodded.

The game turned out to be pretty normal, with that coach's team winning in a blowout. Early, he complained about an over and back call I made, but I just stared at him and he parked his carcass back on the bench and closed his yap.

After the game, my partner said to me, "I don't know what you said to him before the game, but he seems like a changed man."

I said, "Maybe the fact that his team won by 40 had something to do with it."

In the business world, this is called "management by avoidance".

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 08:01pm

Is this official have problems with everyone or is this just the relationship this coach and official have with each other.

It still seems like there is more to this story. I still feel like there is more you could tell us. But then again, this part of the story was fine. I seem to understand why you were concerned. But what happen before this last "confrontation?"

Peace

Mark Padgett · #13 (**permalink**) Sat May 04, 2002, 11:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Is this official have problems with everyone or is this just the relationship this coach and official have with each other.

It still seems like there is more to this story. I still feel like there is more you could tell us. But then again, this part of the story was fine. I seem to understand why you were concerned. But what happen before this last "confrontation?"

Peace

There's really nothing more to it. I've worked with this partner before and my only problem is that he seems to hold a grudge if a coach gives him a hard time. However, if he can satisfy his ego by admonishing the coach and the coach then becomes passive, he gets back to normal.

As far as calling a game, he does a pretty good job, although he has always calls a "kick" every time a ball hits someone's foot, regardless of the circumstances.

Today, after this game, we had two more games together. We called a total of 11 technicals in those two games, all on players. The first game was varsity boys and the second was JV boys. Seven of the eleven were for profanity, one was for second delay warning after made baskets and one was for reaching across the boundary on an OOB and hitting the ball. Another one came after he T'd a kid and the kid then went to the bench and kicked it so hard, it knocked all the gym bags and water bottles off. I gave him that one, and he was gone.

BTW - the other one came when a kid complained about a no-call to me. I let it go until he said, "I guess it's illegal for you to call any fouls today." I replied, "Not at all. Just watch. WHACK!"

I don't anticipate too many tomorrow - all girls games.

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Sun May 05, 2002, 12:15am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Quote:

I don't anticipate too many tomorrow - all girls games.

I know I am going to do it again, but I usually have more Ts in girls games. The girls tend to be more vocal and emotional. The boys tend to be more afraid or savvy not to reveal their true feelings. Kind of like real life.

Peace

Mark Padgett · #15 (**permalink**) Sun May 05, 2002, 12:24am

I hardly ever have Ts in girls games, because most of the Ts I give seem to be for profanity and that is (in my experience) much more prevalent in boys games.

Besides, girls usually put the word "like" before any other word, including their swearing, so it sounds cute and takes away from the impact.

In fact, I'm waiting to hear a girls team yelling, "like, ball - like, ball - like, ball."