What do you have???

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

(NevadaRef... my fault for not being clear about what I was trying to convey. I've always enjoyed your insights on this board. I think I came across a little rude.)

IMHO....

You have to have a whistle on the drive to the basket. From the angle we have it looks like a block to me. I don't see how you can't have a whistle one way or the other on this play.

White gets two free throws and no goaltending IMO.

Fair enough. I didn't think that you were rude. I just didn't understand what point you were trying to make by posting the video.

In my experience anytime someone posts such a clip that person has a strong opinion about the situation and is looking to share it and get feedback from others.

Therefore, I'll give you my two cents on this play.
1. I believe that the defender established his position on the court prior to the offensive player's second foot leaving the floor (although it is impossible to tell because the official's head obscures the feet of the players). So I believe that he got there in the nick of time. Also, it is my opinion that the defender was not moving towards the opponent and thus did not initiate any of the contact. Therefore, I cannot penalize the defender on this play. I simply can't state anything that he did wrong. So I'm either calling a PC or nothing.

2. Did the amount of contact warrant a PC? Was the defender placed at a clear disadvantage by the contact?
My answers are no to both questions. The attacking player seems to slide to the side and only clip the defender's shoulder and upper body. The defender goes down trying to draw the call. The offensive player gets a bit hurt on his fall because he was at an awkward angle, but he chose to make that move and put himself in that position. I'm not giving him anything that he doesn't deserve just because he stays down.

So my thought is that the official had a poor angle as he got beat in transition, but was fortunate that nothing needed to be called on the play.

In summary even if the action looks very ugly and bodies are on the floor, I have reached a point in my officiating where I can live with no whistle being put on the play, if I truly believe that neither player did anything illegal by rule and that the amount of contact was incidental.

[Camron Rust]

It is my opinion that the defender was late to the spot and I'd agree with a block. However, as with most YouTube videos, the quality is pathetic and no easy way to go slow motion so I don't hold that opinion strongly and wouldn't argue with anyone who called nothing....defender did appear to do a little embellishment on whatever contact there was. I do not thing it was a charge, however.

[Adam]

I'm with Nevada on this one. I thought the defender was there in time, but contact was minimal if anything due partly to the defender's acting performance. There may have been a PC if the defender hadn't given up his position; but it's hard to tell with the angle.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm with Nevada on this one. I thought the defender was there in time,

Originally Posted by Camron

It is my opinion that the defender was late to the spot and I'd agree with a block

So we have 2 votes for charge, 3 votes for block, and 2 votes for no-call. I think we have found a specimen of the very elusive 50-50-50 play!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So we have 2 votes for charge, 3 votes for block, and 2 votes for no-call. I think we have found a specimen of the very elusive 50-50-50 play!

I think it's closer to 40-60-40.
In case I wasn't clear, my vote's for no-call.

[Vinski]

I try to give a ruling based on my first viewing of these videos and then replay them to see if I would stick with my original call or not. The first time I played it I had a travel on green at the beginning. On the contact at the other end I would have called a block. On both plays the camera angle was poor, so difficult to tell for sure. Those would have been my "real time" calls. After replaying I think it probably was a travel, but I would ultimately be guessing. And on that block/charge call, I can't tell on that one for sure either. That angle simply doesn't provide for enough info to properly judge the play. It does look like the defender made it in the nick of time, but the contact also seems a lot less then what the bodies on the floor may indicate. But then again, the defender could have been moving in towards the ball handler as well.
I guess if I had a second chance to judge it I would go with a no-call because the contact was lighter than I thought and I simply can’t tell for sure from that angle.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So we have 2 votes for charge, 3 votes for block, and 2 votes for no-call. I think we have found a specimen of the very elusive 50-50-50 play!

Put me down as agreeing with you.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Vinski

The first time I played it I had a travel on green at the beginning.

Agreed...at 29 secs on the shot clock....not 100% from that video but there was a lot of footwork before the ball appeared to ever leave his hands. But, given the video angle/quality it is entirely possible that the player didn't actually have control of the ball which would allow such foot movement.

Originally Posted by Vinski

It does look like the defender made it in the nick of time, but the contact also seems a lot less then what the bodies on the floor may indicate.
....
I guess if I had a second chance to judge it I would go with a no-call because the contact was lighter than I thought and I simply can’t tell for sure from that angle.

For the defender yes, he clearly embellished the contact. But the offensive player was partially flipped over. He went up with his body roughly vertical but came down horizontal. There was certainly some contact.

It's only a matter of determining fault....and that is no certain task from this video. If the defender was late or moving toward the shooter, that has to be a block. If the defender was there in time, a no call could be warranted give then the defender took himself out of the play more than the contact did.

[btaylor64]

I'm going to go back and read everyone's post later, but for now I'm just going to tell you what i have:

It looks like a travel on green in the post, but I said it "looks like" a travel. I can't really see what the ball is doing in the post players hand. He could be fumbling it, so I'm leaving that alone.

Next, on the transition play I have a block, according to my pro standards which is all i've ever learned, but with my new knowledge of a player having to be airborne I guess it would be a charge, either way there absolutely, necessarily has to be a whistle on this play! this is not a play that can be left alone! some ppl might say we can't see how much contact there was from that angle but the offensive player goes down really hard and is hurt so I would deem that sufficient contact.

Lastly, the block by the player in green is legal. He takes it to the board not off the board.

Good *** play. This is one of those plays that I was talking about in another thread where you can go either way with by knowing what you've called throughout the game.

[Mark Padgett]

I absotively, posilutely have a travel on the post player at the beginning and I have a block on the final shot. Then, since the coach would have come out on the floor to dispute my call, I have a technical on him, followed by a second one and an ejection for his continuing to argue. He is then suspended for the rest of the season for attempting to throw a punch (he misses, of course, since my reaction time is outstanding despite the meds) and my cousin Tony S. goes to his house and breaks a few kneecaps.

That's my call.

[mu4scott]

After watching the play several more times I’m even more certain a whistle has to be blown on the block/charge call. I personally think it’s a block, but if it’s 50/50 then I give it to the player in green for his dramatic lunge backward.

I’ve passed on these things before and it seems like chaos usually follows.

[Adam]

I don't agree this is a must whistle play. I can't improve upon what Camron said:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It's only a matter of determining fault....and that is no certain task from this video. If the defender was late or moving toward the shooter, that has to be a block. If the defender was there in time, a no call could be warranted give then the defender took himself out of the play more than the contact did.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

This is one of those plays that I was talking about in another thread where you can go either way with by knowing what you've called throughout the game.

Didn't get it then, don't get it now. What does the earlier call have to do with this one, no matter when it happened? This is truly an example of a "call that could go either way" as proven by the split among experienced officials here.
Just see the play and make the call, then live with it. "How did I call this similar play earlier?" has no place in the decision imo.

[rockyroad]

I still say that the best thing to learn from this video is to get your a$$ down the court on transition plays. Do NOT stand there and watch the players run past you and then decide it's time to get going...that official was lazy on that play and there is never an excuse for being lazy!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Didn't get it then, don't get it now. What does the earlier call have to do with this one, no matter when it happened? This is truly an example of a "call that could go either way" as proven by the split among experienced officials here.
Just see the play and make the call, then live with it. "How did I call this similar play earlier?" has no place in the decision imo.

But that is exactly the point. If you have 2 similar plays that can go either way and you had a "?????" on one end of the court then why wouldn't you have "?????" on this end?