What to call?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick

Look at the exception in 9-11. This exception (the dunk protection clause) applies to both putting the ball in and to blocking shots (i.e., A1 goes up for a dunk, B1's hand gets trapped by the ball outside the cylinder and gets pushed into the cylinder).

Mark,
...And your point is...?

mick
[/B][/QUOTE]

Someone thought this was BI because A1 touched the ball while it was in the cylinder - I simply pointed out why this was not so (apparently after someone else had done so).

[BktBallRef]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crew

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Oh, and the rules that govern traveling are different in the NBA versus NF and NCAA.

what are the differences?

#1- The two rhythm count that you spoke of, although it is similiar to a jumpstop.

#2- NBA - A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.

In the NF and NCAA, a player who falls to the floor while holding the ball has traveled. He doesn't get a chance to slide.

#3- As Chuck correctly guessed, in the NBA, it's traveling if a player reobunds his won missed airball shot. It is not traveling in the NF or NCAA.

#4- NBA - After lifting the pivot foot, if a player drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

Under NF and NCAA rules, can a player recover the ball if he fumbles it? The rule says that he must pass or shoot. It does not say he cannot be the first player to touch it if he drops or fumbles it. If he legitmately fumbled it, I would let him recover it.

#5 - They don't call traveling in the NBA!

[crew]

bktballref,

the differences: 1. cannot catch own shot. 2. not necesarily a travel if a player falls to the floor. and a player may recover a fumbled ball as in nc2a.

it is a confusing play but the play has been referenced by nc2a and pro. also the differences in the traveling definitions have no bearing on the play. the ball must be released prior to the pivot foot coming to the floor in both nc2a and pro.

you have a hard time admitting you were wrong.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by crew
bktballref,

the differences: 1. cannot catch own shot. 2. not necesarily a travel if a player falls to the floor. and a player may recover a fumbled ball as in nc2a.

it is a confusing play but the play has been referenced by nc2a and pro. also the differences in the traveling definitions have no bearing on the play.

And, I never said the differences in NBA versus NF and NCAA traveling rules had any bearing on the play. You stated, "the rules that govern traveling are the same from pro to college to highschool." I simply stated that this was not true. I've pointed out the differences.

the ball must be released prior to the pivot foot coming to the floor in both nc2a and pro.

No, I'm afriad you're wrong.

NCAA 4-65-2
The try shall start when the player begins the motion that habitually precedes the release of the ball on a try. The ball does not need to leave the player’s hand.
NCAA 4-65-5
A dunk attempt is a try.

you have a hard time admitting you were wrong.

Where was I wrong? You've been wrong since you got here with your "I'm not calling it that way cause the rule doesn't make sense" mentality.

Read the above rule references. Who's wrong?

[crew]

NCAA 4-65-2
The try shall start when the player begins the motion that habitually precedes the release of the ball on a try. The ball does not need to leave the player’s hand.
NCAA 4-65-5
A dunk attempt is a try.

this is talking about the begining of a try and continuous motion in regards to shooting motion. (ie shooting foul)

[BBarnaky]

Thanks crew for NCAA rule on that. I see way to many officials that I have observed or work with that call plays going to the basket/rim "on the floor" and instead they should be 2 shot foul.

It is a shooting foul when the player begins any motion at all that precedes the eventual shooting of the ball. Therefore when a player picks up his dribble and takes his steps to the basket, those plays where arm hits occur as he habitually makes his motion to the basket should be ruled 2 shot fouls and not "on the floor."

This is another good discussion here that I think we, in general, sometimes miss and put the ball sideout or on the endline too much, in my humble and HONEST opinion.

[tharbert]

I thought you guys had agreed two pages back. But, for the sake of getting to Sr. Member this century, I'll throw down too...

Going back to the original post, it really comes down to whether the official believes the player was shooting, i.e. initiating a try on goal. I don't know what an offensive player holding the ball against the rim would be doing other than trying to put it in the goal. I think MOFFICIAL passing on the call was correct. If I see an offensive player trap the ball against the rim, I'm not going to embarass myself trying to sell a travel here (NF/NCAA).

[BBarnaky]

Wasn't trying to rehash anything. Just merely talking philosophy on this rule in general. Personally, I didn't even remember what the original play was in this thread. Just talking philosophy here and that is how we all improve (or hopefully improve).