Part II: Defender drops on hands and knees...

[PSidbury]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Just kinda wondering....because I haven't seen any response from you yet to the answers that you received in the other thread.

This was my first reply within that thread...

Originally Posted by PSidbury

Regardless... I agree, it is unsportsmanlike and not a basketball move... and the forceful displacement should have been cleaned-up early on.

Always learning...

Thanks

I will say it again:
"it is unsportsmanlike and not a basketball move... and the forceful displacement should have been cleaned-up early on."

And even one more time, for those in the back:
"it is unsportsmanlike and not a basketball move... and the forceful displacement should have been cleaned-up early on."

However, my intent in these posts was always about focusing on the legality of the defender dropping to his hands and knees.

So, I started a new thread to focus on what really was my question, (taking the backing-down out of the equation), and less on all this peanut gallery "Why did you allow the milk to be spilled?" rhetoric.

Sheesh.

Thanks,
Paul

Originally Posted by PSidbury

However, my intent in these posts was always about focusing on the legality of the defender dropping to his hands and knees.

So, I started a new thread to focus on what really was my question, (taking the backing-down out of the equation), and less on all this peanut gallery "Why did you allow the milk to be spilled?" rhetoric.

Sheesh.

Thanks,
Paul

Hey Paul, I understand your frustration BUT you've been on the board for over half a year now. That being said, you should know how it goes 'round here... especially during the off-season when things are slower. With the great knowledge that one can obtain here also comes inside jokes, smart a$$ comments, topic switching, etc. I had trouble recognizing that fact when I first joined, but dealing with the guys/gals here helps one develop the thick-skinned quality that all great officials need.
Basically, nobody is forcing you to post on this "open to the public" forum, if you want direct answers w/out the hoopla... I suggest that you find a mentor!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

So, I started a new thread to focus on what really was my question, (taking the backing-down out of the equation), and less on all this peanut gallery "Why did you allow the milk to be spilled?" rhetoric.

Sheesh.

"Peanut gallery"? "Sheesh"?

From some rookie clown who obviously hasn't figured out which end of the whistle to blow yet?

You didn't learn a damn thing, did ya? You also still haven't learned what was really important about the whole situation that you originally posted either, have ya?

Hint.....it ain't some once-in million, might-never-happen situation. It's about a new official that very obviously doesn't know some very basic rules relating to illegal contact.

Lah me....peanut gallery.....

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

However, my intent in these posts was always about focusing on the legality of the defender dropping to his hands and knees.

So, I started a new thread to focus on what really was my question, (taking the backing-down out of the equation), and less on all this peanut gallery "Why did you allow the milk to be spilled?" rhetoric.

Sheesh.

Thanks,
Paul

Your question on the legality of what the defender did was answered within the first couple of replies on BOTH threads. As far as the peanut gallery, spilled milk rhetoric - good grief. You screwed up by not calling the PC foul, and you screwed up by telling the coach what you did...that was pointed out to you and you didn't like it. So be it...we now know who can't handle constructive criticism.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

The assumption is that the B-player has "intentionally" fallen to his hands and knees in order to "stop" the A-player, however what if the B-player falls to his hands and knees as a result of feigning injury of some kind? How would we know the difference?

1. If you think the player might actually be injured, stop play and have him replaced. Beckon the coach and make him choose whether or not to request a TO.
2. If you think the player is "feigning" injury. Stop play and have him replaced. Beckon the player and, well, you get the point. Treat it like a real injury even if you think it's not.
3. If you're at all in doubt, at least stop play and ask him if he's ok. He'll either be grateful or embarrassed. Either way, you've done your job.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

Part I post seemed to get a little far afield from the intial intent.

Forget about displacement or offensive foul calling or non-calling and please allow the intent and focus of this post be about the legality of the B-player dropping to his hands and knees.

The ball goes in to the A-forward on the block and he begins to dribble backwards toward the goal.
However… the B-defender who is between A-player and goal immediately drops to his hands and knees (within his space) and… you guessed it… the A-player backs-up and tumbles over B-player.

1) What is the NFHS ruling on this and what would you guys call and on whom?

2) The assumption is that the B-player has "intentionally" fallen to his hands and knees in order to "stop" the A-player, however what if the B-player falls to his hands and knees as a result of feigning injury of some kind? How would we know the difference?

Thanks,
Paul

Are you kidding?

[Tio]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

Part I post seemed to get a little far afield from the intial intent.

Forget about displacement or offensive foul calling or non-calling and please allow the intent and focus of this post be about the legality of the B-player dropping to his hands and knees.

The ball goes in to the A-forward on the block and he begins to dribble backwards toward the goal.
However… the B-defender who is between A-player and goal immediately drops to his hands and knees (within his space) and… you guessed it… the A-player backs-up and tumbles over B-player.

1) What is the NFHS ruling on this and what would you guys call and on whom?

2) The assumption is that the B-player has "intentionally" fallen to his hands and knees in order to "stop" the A-player, however what if the B-player falls to his hands and knees as a result of feigning injury of some kind? How would we know the difference?

Thanks,
Paul

Paul, I hope you understand that the many officials who replied to your initial post are trying to show you that this situation occurred because of your crew's failure to properly adjudicate the rules.

Defenders who "flop" are surrendering their legal guarding position. Any contact with a defender in an illegal guarding position is a block. If you can determine the defender intentionally undercut the offensive player than you may consider an intentional foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

Defenders who "flop" are surrendering their legal guarding position. Any contact with a defender in an illegal guarding position is a block.

While I agree this is a defensive foul. I disagree with these two sentences. Players who fall backwards are not surrendering their LGP.
Players without LGP are not always responsible for contact.